SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Make TP done in lab return to the first lab room. Peoples who don't want trap gameplay at all can pay someone and just wait for the TP.

I don't like lab but I'm doing it anyway because if I pay a runner I still have to run through traps, so no interest to buy a run...

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Turtledove wrote:

What's the definition of an internet troll?

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, often for their own amusement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

So when when someone says that we're asking for free ascendancy points, they either haven't read any of this thread or if they've been involved in the thread then you know that they are an ...[drum roll]... INTERNET TROLL!

Or it means they're exaggerating slightly for dramatic effect, being slightly facetious, similar to how people say the lab is frogger... *cough*

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Shovelcut wrote:

And if you read further into what you just linked you'll find:

"

Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. Like any pejorative term, it can be used as an ad hominem attack, suggesting a negative motivation.

That's gotta sting.

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Regulator wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

Edit: Also, the original intent of this thread is very illuminating if you read the first page of replies.

Thats the original request :

Spoiler

I understand GGG has put a lot of effort on the expansion and what im asking is too much, but ascendancy points should be freed from the labyrinth's tyranny.

Those who like the labyrinth itself wont lose anything and even if they feel they do GGG can compansate them with extra loots or better enchantment system.

Those who dont like the labyrinth finally are free to mess around with the only thing that is worth messing in this expansion, the Ascendancy classes.

So no change of playstyle for neither "lovers" nor "haters" , while as it is now the "haters" get the shaft for not supporting GGG idea and design of a different playstyle.


FREE ASCENDANCY POINTS, make PoE a better place.

The original title was "FREE ASCENDANCY POINTS", free as a verb.

Unfortunately people are too stupid, selfish and eager to mock anything. The goal of the thread has remained exactly the same since the first day. The original was raw and unrefined, with time it just got better visually, the essence is unchanged. To this day i still cant get it how a change like that would affect anyone in a negative way. Like seriously, dont disagree for the shake of disagreeing, because everything i read regarding that question has zero backup. Ive seen various stupid answers with the most prevailing being : "lore", "doesnt feel right", "ill lose my interest with the lab"

Lore is liquid and can change anytime
Doesnt feel right for the rest of us too
If removing AP from lab causes anyone to lose interest in the lab, they didnt have any to begin with.

Please give us something that we can admit and say : fuck they are right, how dare we request such a thing. Cause as it is now we (the haters) are forced to suffer the thing you (the lovers) theoritically would suffer in case a change happened. Seriously a solid asnwer is all i ask.

Hold that thought, I need to gather some souls before I vaal cyclone the shit out of your OP and this thread.


p.s. Just to be clear, you just want something directly relevant to the bold?

"

dickhole_mcghee wrote:

p.s. Just to be clear, you just want something directly relevant to the bold?

Yes. Those who are against the alternative ways to get AC points still have yet to make a valid point why it would hurt THEM if GGG would provide an alternative way to get the AC points. We are not talking about a change of the current lab, we are talking about alternatives that let the current lab unchanged. The only "valid" argument by now was, that it would need extra work from GGG, which could be spent on new content. But lets be honest here: There are times when something with a game is not right and needs additional work. So I don't think this argument really applies.

To clarify (cause apparently its always needed with internet trolls) : Besides my initial request which is in the extreme end and i understand myself too that is not going to be widely accepted, EVERY single suggestion in the op leaves the labyrinth and the ascendancy points there in addition to providing alternative ways to ascend/rework to the labyrinth itself.

Have the above clarification in mind (that labyrinth and its rewards remain the same as now) and answer that question :

How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

Please if you are going to answer that specific question quote it before your answer, i prefer quality answers rather than uselless huge walls of text.

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AceNightfire wrote:

Yes. Those who are against the alternative ways to get AC points still have yet to make a valid point why it would hurt THEM if GGG would provide an alternative way to get the AC points.

Wait, someone said changing the lab would cause them pain? Because if they did I missed it. What I thought we were all saying is that your whining should not be rewarded. These threads are pathetic.

Learn the content. I say this as a growing point for your entire life: YOU DO NOT NEED TO LOVE OR EVEN LIKE THE CONTENT (this applies to everything in life), but if you learned it you could at least Ascend in a respectable amount of time on your characters. There is absolutely nothing wrong with GGG expecting you to do something you don't like to get something you want. This entitlement attitude is pervasive anymore and frankly I'm glad GGG pretty much said "Yea, we're glad people are angry". It's a game, if you hate it that much just quit. I'm not saying the thread should never have been made but I am saying that at some point enough is really enough. You tried, you failed; the lab is the same and they added another version that's even harder. Really it does not matter whether or not you enjoy every aspect of the game so long as you enjoy enough of the game to make playing it worthwhile (despite not enjoying all of it). Watering down the content to make it more appealing to a larger player base would be a poor decision on several levels; I also think it would set a bad precedent.

You're right though, it doesn't "hurt" at all to see these absurd suggestions every single day, and understand that by and large these "suggestions" are absurd.

**If you are having lag and DC issues this is an issue with the game and while it hurts more in the lab it needs to be addressed from a game-wide perspective. I appreciate your complaints in this area (overall) but it is not a lab-specific issue as presented here**

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

Wait, someone said changing the lab would cause them pain? Because if they did I missed it. What I thought we were all saying is that your whining should not be rewarded. These threads are pathetic.

There are very good arguments why the lab is not in line with the classic poe gameplay and that character customization should not be gated behind this new gameplay. If they add a card game in the next content patch and force you to play it because it gives you AC points, would you actually like it? Would you think it fits into poe? It's practically the same thing.

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

Learn the content.

I did learnt he content. I play PoE for many years now. Even before it was released on steam. I'm not a pro gamer that gets to lvl 80+ at first day, but I'm doing fine with the classic gameplay. I also only play Hardcore because I like the challange. And I still like PoE as much as I liked it at day 1. But only the parts that are in line with the classic gameplay (like the new act 4). If players could get the AC points through killing Malachai, no one would complain. The lab would be untouched, the change wouldn't demand much effort from GGG and people could enjoy the character customization. Not just that, even merciless Malachai would have a purpose to be killed now!

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

I say this as a growing point for your entire life: YOU DO NOT NEED TO LOVE OR EVEN LIKE THE CONTENT (this applies to everything in life), but if you learned it you could at least Ascend in a respectable amount of time on your characters. There is absolutely nothing wrong with GGG expecting you to do something you don't like to get something you want. This entitlement attitude is pervasive anymore and frankly I'm glad GGG pretty much said "Yea, we're glad people are angry". It's a game, if you hate it that much just quit. I'm not saying the thread should never have been made but I am saying that at some point enough is really enough. You tried, you failed; the lab is the same and they added another version that's even harder. Really it does not matter whether or not you enjoy every aspect of the game so long as you enjoy enough of the game to make playing it worthwhile (despite not enjoying all of it). Watering down the content to make it more appealing to a larger player base would be a poor decision on several levels; I also think it would set a bad precedent.

You are right, I do not need to like the content. And GGG is well aware that there are many people who don't. So why the hell is the lab not optional then? Why the hell do I have to finish it to get the AC points? Atziri for example is completely optional. Even if I want to have the uniques, I can buy them from someone else. But if I want tog et the AC points, I have to do the labyrinth while being present and I have to walk through trap sequences which fill multiple screens. No one would complain if the AC points were taken outside or if there would be an alternative way to get them. A more classic way. People like you are just stubborn to accept the fact, that not everyone likes to fiddle around traps with mouse/keyboard. I play skillbased games like Jump'n Runs or other platformer, but I usually do that with a Controler. It completely feels wrong for me with keyboard/mouse and I do not enjoy it. And because of that it's really hard for me to learn it. It's just no fun for me, but I'm still kinda forced to do it, since many builds depend on the AC points. Now I need to spent hours to git gud at the lab, just to finish them once. If that's fun for you, I'm happy for you. But it isn't for me and like you know for many else too. There would have been much better ways to implement this.

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

You're right though, it doesn't "hurt" at all to see these absurd suggestions every single day, and understand that by and large these "suggestions" are absurd.

People liked PoE for many years now. Most of them still like it, but they start to not like the new content. So why is it absurd to make suggestions to make the game overall better again? Just because YOU like the content doesn't mean it should be that way for everyone and you should accept the fact that this feedback forum is there to criticize existing content and making suggestions for change.

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

**If you are having lag and DC issues this is an issue with the game and while it hurts more in the lab it needs to be addressed from a game-wide perspective. I appreciate your complaints in this area (overall) but it is not a lab-specific issue as presented here**

You are contradicting yourself. You say that "lag/DC hurts more in the lab", but then you say "it's not a lab-specific issue". So yes, the lag/issue problem is something that is specifically problematic in the lab. And not everyone here plays close to the server and has 20-40ms ping. Some play with a constant 200ms ping and can't change that. There are enough ways to mitigate incoming damage from enemies even if you have a high ping, but trap damage is not so easy to mitigate. Examples:

Against Enemies:
- Cut their way off
- Kill them before thea reach you
- Built tanky with enfeeble aura etc.
- Dodge them once when they charge at you (rhoas for example)

Against traps:
- Can't cut their way off. You need to pass them in order to proceed
- Can't kill them
- They deal true damage, so building tanky doesn't help so much (besindes having some ES/Life Reg)
- You need to constantly dodge traps and not just once

"

Dos_Fafner wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

Yes. Those who are against the alternative ways to get AC points still have yet to make a valid point why it would hurt THEM if GGG would provide an alternative way to get the AC points.

Wait, someone said changing the lab would cause them pain? Because if they did I missed it. What I thought we were all saying is that your whining should not be rewarded. These threads are pathetic.

Learn the content. I say this as a growing point for your entire life: YOU DO NOT NEED TO LOVE OR EVEN LIKE THE CONTENT (this applies to everything in life), but if you learned it you could at least Ascend in a respectable amount of time on your characters. There is absolutely nothing wrong with GGG expecting you to do something you don't like to get something you want. This entitlement attitude is pervasive anymore and frankly I'm glad GGG pretty much said "Yea, we're glad people are angry". It's a game, if you hate it that much just quit. I'm not saying the thread should never have been made but I am saying that at some point enough is really enough. You tried, you failed; the lab is the same and they added another version that's even harder. Really it does not matter whether or not you enjoy every aspect of the game so long as you enjoy enough of the game to make playing it worthwhile (despite not enjoying all of it). Watering down the content to make it more appealing to a larger player base would be a poor decision on several levels; I also think it would set a bad precedent.

You're right though, it doesn't "hurt" at all to see these absurd suggestions every single day, and understand that by and large these "suggestions" are absurd.

**If you are having lag and DC issues this is an issue with the game and while it hurts more in the lab it needs to be addressed from a game-wide perspective. I appreciate your complaints in this area (overall) but it is not a lab-specific issue as presented here**

You might have a point, but the problem is that the game hadn't reached a final state - from my point of view it's still in a kind of Beta, or I wouldn't be so forgiving regarding all the "meta" shifts and balancing/technical optimisation problems - and some more casual users wanting to have "fun" are backlashing more than enough regarding (and I really hate the word "gating" so I won't use it) some optional content that defines your character.

I presume that we all agree that PoE is still an RPG first and foremost, and the Ascendancy points are an important part of customisation of your character to a large part of the player base.

This entitled attitude is due to the technical problems first, but also due to a boring section, if you really wanted to make it "fun", we actually need more monsters to fight when we are trying to run the trap gauntlets, they could have easily used at least some of the nice conditions that force you to fight monsters for some rooms, and fully clear them to advance (you do remember the parts in the pits from Daresso's Dream), all in a nice maze like path that rewards the exploration and punishes those unprepared - and if you're not skilled enough there should be a better way to check that instead of having to build a game around Alt+F4 and one shotting to stop the power creep.


I said it before, you can have lots of reason to be really pissed by the imprecise control at times regarding trap navigation, or by the insufficient view of the trap gauntlets or even by the inhuman grinding required to obtain a nice enchantment for the helm, but all of the above transform something that should be a pinnacle of mechanics into a tedious and boring part of the game, and that is when even us casual players can state our mind.

I do have a life that comes first, as many other do, and it's already a problem when you are not playing for "fun", my build's are not FOTM material, but I manage somehow even with harder content, but hte second I find this game turning into "chop, chop/work, work" and not providing "fun", that's when I'll stop.

I like to not be the most effective player in the world if I feel that the balance of power between me and the monsters is right, and I crave for a higher difficulty made by efficiently balancing the content, not by diminishing the drops/XP gained. From my point of view they should have add traps everywhere, make them a bit more forgiving and make the 10% XP loss default on every difficulty fosr Softcore. That would make a nice change of pace and when you die, you might start asking yourself more about the build and what went wrong.

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AceNightfire wrote:

Would you think it fits into poe? It's practically the same thing.

I'm not jumping into this argument again (I had it out earlier in the thread, feel free to read). None of you listen so it's pointless at this time.

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AceNightfire wrote:

I did learnt he content.

No, obviously you did not. If you did, you would join the people Ascending and not complaining

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AceNightfire wrote:

You are right, I do not need to like the content.

That's pretty much the whole point I was making so if you're conceding that then you are conceding this particular argument.

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AceNightfire wrote:

People liked PoE for many years now. Most of them still like it, but they start to not like the new content.

My in-game friends have quit at various releases, some with the intention of coming back others with no intention of coming back. The game keeps growing and people keep quitting/joining. Your point here is moot. The only way to ensure people won't quit from additions to the game is to quit adding to the game and that would pretty much kill it.

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AceNightfire wrote:

You are contradicting yourself. You say that "lag/DC hurts more in the lab", but then you say "it's not a lab-specific issue". So yes, the lag/issue problem is something that is specifically problematic in the lab.

No, I am not. Lag/DC is the same degree of "worse" in maps. If you play HC (like me) lag/DC is an issue for causing irreversible death, and that's way worse than a lab DC. If you are running in a quick-paced party for xp/loot/etc lag/DC is a big issue for your continued progress within that party. If you are just out questing for the hell of it on SC then lag in the lab is worse; THIS is what I meant and I apologize if that wasn't clear. Overall, it is a GAME-WIDE issue that, in my opinion, GGG has worked on but never solved and that is what makes it unacceptable to me (from a game-wide perspective, not a lab perspective).

Your little blurb at the end shows that you have indeed not learned the content. If you learned the content you would understand that many of the assumptions you have made about the traps, their damage, and the lab itself are based on fallacies. Your build is very important in the lab (as it is almost everywhere but in a Gorge party). Also, if you know what you're doing, there's only a few trap sequences to navigate that require more than a single movement skill to get over. If you watch the internet threads that give lab details you can avoid bad lab days and cut this number down to a minimum consistently. An average lab run should take you about 10 minutes (let's call it 10-15 to be safe). The amount of time spent on necessary (not optional) trap sequences is about 3-5 minutes total per run. So really, what is the issue here? 9-15 minutes of dodging obvious and avoidable traps per character is a problem? The whole premise of AC and the lab should be changed because those 15 minutes COMPLETELY CRUSH your gaming experience? I'm just not buying it. Laziness and entitlement at their worst.