SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

"

dickhole_mcghee wrote:

"

miljan wrote:

How exactly are we fighting it that is wrong? Do you even know what you are posting here, or your just trolling? We fight by making threads and polls, and comments on videos, emailing devs and similar? That is bad way of fighting, why? If we didnt do anything, he would not even say one word about it (and that they are not closed to the idea of getting the points other ways in the future) and think that everyone likes that crap.

Did someone threaten the lives of devs or some crap like that, that I missed?

Basically I mean the 'quality over quantity' approach along with not being so antagonistic towards anybody that slightly disagrees. Taking the time to develop a clear and internally consistent argument that holds up to scrutiny. Learning how a formal/semiformal debate/discussion works on a fundamental level.

And that is exactly we have here, if you read the OP and suggestions made here, very clear and internally consistent argument in the OP. but if you try to defend fanboys and trolls that come here and post shit, and than get slapped, than you should really not. I though you where talking that someone attacked GGG. But it seems your just trying to defend few trolls on here. If people act shitty, reaction will be shitty.

Welcome back from your probation goetzjam.

"

goetzjam wrote:

As for the statement Chris made is he said its something that is possible, but at this time isn't something that is planned. If anything he made it clear that you can't just change stuff because some people are upset, otherwise you end up with a bland game or part of the game that neither party likes at all.

He didnt say anything that if you change something the game will be worse and that no part of community will like. So that comment is not correct, and please if you want to talk about something Chris said, be precise. The thing he said is that he is ok that people dont like some parts of the game, and that bring different emotion to people. While this is mostly a PR move, normaly as you would want that content you add is liked by everyone of your community that plays the game, and was fan of the game for years now

"

goetzjam wrote:

The highest chance for a change is really the likelyhood that it isn't going to happen at all. Think about it, even if they remove the first 6 points, there isn't an equivalent option to allow you to get the last 2 points, you are talking about a considerable amount of work, in order to what make some people happy they don't have to do the lab, except they would if they wanted to get the last 2 points, pretty much no matter what. If anything the uber lab really does dictate that GGG isn't (at least at this stage) willing to change the lab to remove ascendancy from it, thats just clear by Chris's statements and the overall direction the game is going with the uber lab as well.

Than we need to push more, and remind GGG that there are people that dont like the lab and that they should look at options how to fix that problem. If we do nothing, nothing will ever happen.
Actually the last 2 points can be done in same way as other 6 points, people that want a bigger chalange, without traps can do it. I made a suggestion to ScrotieMcB point how to do it few pages back.

"

goetzjam wrote:

As for the next expansion, there is a slight chance they could make some of it easier to access, but I think after they streamlined the game in 2.0 they wanted this additional power to take some additional time to acquire, I dont think just because it wont be the sole main focus of the next expansion that they will suddenly just give it away for free, like most of the suggestions are trying to do, more importantly I dont think having to do the lab 3-4 times on each character is that much overall time out of a character, that its too intrusive or restrictive for characters to progress and still do all the things they want. A good chance GGG agrees with me and they see that if people dont or aren't good at running the lab, they can "pay for" rushes or have a friend help them out, negating most of the time and issues people can have. People say its like frogger and they really isn't true, frogger you get hit once and your dead, it takes a pretty significant error on the players part to die from traps, seeing as they do a % of life over time.

No one said to give it free, please read suggestions in the OP before assuming wrong things. You are very active here, so you should know what was suggest here. And do you have one life or not, doesnt change the gameplay that is similar to frroger like games and other arcade platforms. They will move focus from lab in the next expansion, so they can give harder option to get points for people that dont like the tap part of the lab, and they dont need to force people anymore on that content, as they will be moving focus as I said.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The same few people, yourself included just repeating the same arguements over and over isn't going to help the battle, if you want your point to succeed then you need fresh blood that adds more then "i dont like traps" you need more people willing to post experiences and how the lab could be changed to be more enjoyable to them, rather then just removing AC from the lab, seeing as its far more likely for GGG to change the lab, even if just a little bit, then it is for them to move AC from the lab.

It's important the GGG acknowledge that many people don't like the lab as chris said, and that we got that message through. This thread is full of new and old people. Including me that was not active in this thread till last week. And this thread was going for more than two months. So no problem, we will continue to push as much as we can for this change. The more the better. I know that you want us to do it, so dont worry.

"

goetzjam wrote:

I don't want people to quit over the lab, but at the same time I don't want GGG just to cave at every single topic that gets a few people bumping the thread constantly to make it look like a massive issue, when its not. If you are posting here and won't return to the game until AC is removed from the lab or they change it, next league isn't going to have that change. If you are playing in standard, good news is you only have to do the trials once (for that league) and if the character was made before the deadline you only have to do the lab once, to get all 6 of your points, which means there is no reason for you to quit, just because of the lab. You could spend 10 min and if necessary like 5 chaos and get each one of your characters thru the lab and be done with it. If you are playing in temp leagues or a temp league only player, its still streamlined, just requires a bit more time.

Nice that you dont want to people leave poe. I know that you hate to change anything without any logical explanation (there is, but I dont want to say it). Doesnt matter where who is playing, trap section of the lab is a problem, and we need to push for the change to happen so everyone can have fun with the game.

"

goetzjam wrote:

OP you got your answer, no change is planned and its not going to happen this next patch. Quit or don't but this topic will be irrelevant until we get additional feedback from the streamlined process going forward and perhaps when we can discuss the 4th lab.

This topic can still be viable for new suggestions and ideas. Thanks to ScrotieMcB pointing out his problems with the change, we made a new better suggestion. People that want a easy way to get the points, more casual and arcade way of playing, can play the lab as it is. We others, want a harder way of getting points, but playing standard arpg gameplay in PoE style. So no need to ignore this thread or for people to start asking for lab and points be changed

Cheers

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

I am making sure that I will never come back to the game and talking to everyone that it's not worth playing at its current state.

Thats quite ignorant of you, considering you have 1 ascended character and it looks like you've only done the lab once on it. You hardly have the ability to pass judgement with a knowledgeable and in-depth experience of the lab. I think this is the prime example of people that dislike the lab or perhaps dislike the lab, because they don't know any better. If you knew how to navigate or play the lab, you might actually enjoy it but because you have put forth no effort in doing so, we won't know.

The bad part is that you are discouraging players or potential players from playing this game, based on something you don't like that you have very little experience with, if you want to talk about a really bad thing, its more when players quit and take down any chances of people that would otherwise try the game, just because you had 1 bad experience with something that not only is a small fraction of what you "have to do" as a player but something you again have basically no experience with.

Quite concerning to me that this behavior is coming from someone that has been playing this game for so long, willing to throw in the towel for reasons pretty much unknown to me.

Hmm, what did you think reading that message and then typing your own?

--> he does not like the lab, so lets check if he ever did the lab once before. okay... he did, but only once!
I´m here since closed beta and some1 who played the lab only once has no right to state his opinion here. Let's make sure all know that he only did the lab once and that his statement isn't valid. When did he join poe? Does he have any idea what poe stands for? August 2011? Wow, he's been here one year here before me. I can´t understand why he plays the game for so long and then just quits after they introduced the labyrinth.

Well hard for you to empathize with others. He has an opinion. He tried the lab and didn't like it. I tried cheese and I didn't like it. Maybe I´ll try again sometime, but for now i have an opinion.

I do like the lab but don't like the trap mechanic.

"

goetzjam wrote:

@HeliaXDemoN

"

I am making sure that I will never come back to the game and talking to everyone that it's not worth playing at its current state.

Thats quite ignorant of you, considering you have 1 ascended character and it looks like you've only done the lab once on it. You hardly have the ability to pass judgement with a knowledgeable and in-depth experience of the lab. I think this is the prime example of people that dislike the lab or perhaps dislike the lab, because they don't know any better. If you knew how to navigate or play the lab, you might actually enjoy it but because you have put forth no effort in doing so, we won't know.

The bad part is that you are discouraging players or potential players from playing this game, based on something you don't like that you have very little experience with, if you want to talk about a really bad thing, its more when players quit and take down any chances of people that would otherwise try the game, just because you had 1 bad experience with something that not only is a small fraction of what you "have to do" as a player but something you again have basically no experience with.

Quite concerning to me that this behavior is coming from someone that has been playing this game for so long, willing to throw in the towel for reasons pretty much unknown to me.

In words you can understand:

If someone took a bite out of a hot dog and realised it tastes like shit, he doesn't have to eat the whole hot dog to confirm his aversion to it.

"

TheDeathX wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

I am making sure that I will never come back to the game and talking to everyone that it's not worth playing at its current state.

Thats quite ignorant of you, considering you have 1 ascended character and it looks like you've only done the lab once on it. You hardly have the ability to pass judgement with a knowledgeable and in-depth experience of the lab. I think this is the prime example of people that dislike the lab or perhaps dislike the lab, because they don't know any better. If you knew how to navigate or play the lab, you might actually enjoy it but because you have put forth no effort in doing so, we won't know.

The bad part is that you are discouraging players or potential players from playing this game, based on something you don't like that you have very little experience with, if you want to talk about a really bad thing, its more when players quit and take down any chances of people that would otherwise try the game, just because you had 1 bad experience with something that not only is a small fraction of what you "have to do" as a player but something you again have basically no experience with.

Quite concerning to me that this behavior is coming from someone that has been playing this game for so long, willing to throw in the towel for reasons pretty much unknown to me.

Hmm, what did you think reading that message and then typing your own?

--> he does not like the lab, so lets check if he ever did the lab once before. okay... he did, but only once!
I´m here since closed beta and some1 who played the lab only once has no right to state his opinion here. Let's make sure all know that he only did the lab once and that his statement isn't valid. When did he join poe? Does he have any idea what poe stands for? August 2011? Wow, he's been here one year here before me. I can´t understand why he plays the game for so long and then just quits after they introduced the labyrinth.

Well hard for you to empathize with others. He has an opinion. He tried the lab and didn't like it. I tried cheese and I didn't like it. Maybe I´ll try again sometime, but for now i have an opinion.

I do like the lab but don't like the trap mechanic.

Just because someone says they dislike the lab and are quitting because of it doesn't mean that they should actually DO that. For example there was a post right when the lab hit where someone was going to quit because they spent so much time in the lab and didnt know how to navigate it, so its safe to assume anyone that has only done it a few times (or once) doesn't know how the lab actually works.

The second part is perhaps lost a bit in translation, not exactly sure. I'm not trying to be mean, but rather stating that his actions really aren't the type of actions you would want to see from a "good" player.

Experiencing the game isn't the same as eating a piece of food (although I guess heres a comparison maybe), I know I don't really like seafood, for various reasons, but does that mean that I stopped at eating the first type of fish or "shell fish" that I came across, no I tried many different types and I'll still try something new. I will eat stuff that has seafood in it, like stuffed mushrooms or something, but I'm not really crazy about it. He basically got the taste of 1 fish and said "i dont like any seafood", to me that really isn't fair because fish have various taste and there might be something he does enjoy if its prepared differently or if you have a different approach.


I'm not saying his statement is invalid, only that it overall means much less given the fact that his experience with the piece of content he is complaining about has multiple factors that might cause someone to dislike it, some factors can be learned and mitigated, while others are more stubborn approach that feel like traps are completely out of place.


As for you not liking the trap mechanics, can you go into more detail, like do you like any of the traps or perhaps what would you change about the traps (besides removing them)?

"

miljan wrote:

normaly as you would want that content you add is liked by everyone of your community that plays the game, and was fan of the game for years now

this is where you are wrong. there are cases in business when you want part of your player/customer-base to LEAVE. pleasing everyone is pleasing noone - or turning your product to a shapeless blob of 'i want'/'i need'/'i like'. the lowest common denominator.

POE is dangerously close to mindless click-er game (you know, the game when you do NOTHING besides clicking very fast for 'rewards'): the build to be called 'good' has to do 300mXP in dried lake or clear gorges in ~1minute. anything else is thrash. speed meta, braindead meta, one-click meta.. click-click-click

Lab (both traps and the 'forced hardcore') looks like a change of pace. maybe a sign of things to come. if POE continues with this 'pooowaaaah creep' then it will soon reach numb-creating level of being simply a boring game: click click click (people competing for lvl100 die mostly of boredom and lack of concentration caused by it.. how 'fun' it is to play the same maps for hours on end just to reach some imaginary 'goal'?


if Lab forces people to quit (some people just say they 'quit', sometimes for months...) then maybe it is best for the game. if it is to evolve it has to shed some dead weight.

"

Pyrokar wrote:

In words you can understand:

If someone took a bite out of a hot dog and realised it tastes like shit, he doesn't have to eat the whole hot dog to confirm his aversion to it.

Thats actually funny because I used a food analogy above to try and say why just taking a bite out isn't enough.

For example in your hot dog argument here, thats like saying he hates all hotdogs, when he might just hate a plain hotdog or might hate ones that aren't all beef.

See experiencing the lab isn't about 1 run, its about multiple runs over multiple days because different mechanics are in play. The other thing is you actually have to learn how to lab, its not just something you "wing" really.


Nice to see you shitposting again, like always adding little to nothing to the conversation.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

In words you can understand:

If someone took a bite out of a hot dog and realised it tastes like shit, he doesn't have to eat the whole hot dog to confirm his aversion to it.

Thats actually funny because I used a food analogy above to try and say why just taking a bite out isn't enough.

For example in your hot dog argument here, thats like saying he hates all hotdogs, when he might just hate a plain hotdog or might hate ones that aren't all beef.

See experiencing the lab isn't about 1 run, its about multiple runs over multiple days because different mechanics are in play. The other thing is you actually have to learn how to lab, its not just something you "wing" really.


Nice to see you shitposting again, like always adding little to nothing to the conversation.

Ok.
Now imagine the same thing without him being a hot dog racist. Is it too hard?

"

Casual_Ascent wrote:

Why is it I can never find any of you 4 noisy blowhards on the HC lab ladderboards? You all yammer on how it's the best thing ever, yet you never use it? Come on, at least back up some of your BS :)

Leaderboard pushing and playing the lab for enchantments are 2 very different things. In addition your pathetic attempt to make the argument like "if you like the lab so much go play it and leave this thread alone"

No its not going to happen, if you hate the lab so much and are going to quit, then fucking quit already, they specifically said they arent moving AC from the lab this next league, so you have no reason to stay, you can come back after the league is nearly over and see if they will change it then, until then you are wasting space in a thread that can be more constructive, with your shit post.

Really fucking annoying man.