Quitting PoE after years due to Labyrinth System

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goetzjam wrote:

Many many people dislike various aspects of previous expansions and what they have done to the game, still they are here and playing the game even after it not fitting their expectations.

Cutout the unimportant stuff and kept only your valid arguments and solid points. Yes your only valid argument has no point at all.

Try reading my whole posts one or even two and three times if you feel you havent understood what has been said. So in response to your only new argument i say again : none of the previous expansions gated something that feels so important for character development (a new semi tree in that case, the AC call it whatever you want) behind a new playstyle (something that resembles platform games)


As for the "doesnt fit in poe part" here is a quote from a "friend" of yours who supports the labyrinth like you and a hundred other people.

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IceDeal wrote:

I'm a big roguelike and roguelite fan and the lab is an amazing addition to the game.

P.S. : Friendly advice respond only if you are confident you can see the points/arguments made in this (and many other) thread. No reason (like lab gating AC) to waste our time with silly games.

So here's my thoughts on the whole thing.

People keep saying that the gated skill tree is what is different from previous expansions, but I don't really understand this. If instead of "ascension points" they were a special ascension jewel you you got that you could enchant through the same paths of the ascendancy tree, then would people react the same way? The ascension classes either make your character more powerful, or drastically change the way a mechanic works for you -- the same as a unique item. It's not like you're playing the lab to get two skill points, you're playing it for virtually the same type of game change as a unique item. You can get by perfectly well without it, but GGG was kind enough to make it so that everyone can get it (without even using 4 staves or sac' shards!). The fact that it shows up on the passive tree shouldn't make people feel that their levels or xp is somehow gated behind the content.

Also, I don't truly enjoy the first 50 levels of running through the same 4 acts 3 times, but I do it to get my late game build and power, and I've been more than happy to do the same for huge power spikes for 20 minute runs (well, 1 hour if you count me ripping at least two times each difficulty before achieving it).

3 hours of grind and learning for the biggest item-slotless unique in game. I would mindlessly grind for a week if it meant I could get a corrupted quiver with +1 arrow, but now I can just do 2 hours, and get lots of other bonuses as well.


Also, I understand that people don't like it (and not the difficulty). I get that you don't think it fits in PoE. But I think the Devs were answering the player's call for alternative end game options, and they delivered. Nobody has to do the lab at all (technically), and realistically never more than 3 times. I don't see how this is different from spawning docks over and over watching for the lag spike to farm vaal areas, or the *terrrrrrible* grind on dried lake from 60->80. I've leveled quite a bit in the lab so far while just trying to get the points, and it's been way more fun and engaging than the lake. But if you prefer the lake, you can do that.


I guess what I'm saying is that it *is* optional. Just get to end game, then plow through the first two difficulties of the lab in 10 minutes each, and then the 2 last points can wait for whenever you want to pay someone to run it for you. You don't ever have to look at it again after that.

While I understand that many people won't partake in the lab after they have their points, I don't know why it's worth quitting the game over. It is literally exactly the same as before if you don't look twice at the lab.

It seems to me like people are deciding that the lab doesn't fit POE because they don't like it. It doesn't make sense at all for me. I think succeding in the lab takes significantly less time than whining in the forum since you can just do it three times an forget it. It's no big deal since you can just run safely on most of lab maps and you have just to dodge a couple of traps here and there.

I can even symphatized with worried hc players but to be completely honest i don't understand why people play hc and the avoid every kind of content. If lab is so scary, it's maybe better to think about going softcore.

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Chadwixx wrote:

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JeremiahLoh wrote:

Ascendancy and Labyrinth aren't mandatory per say, you can still do Mapping and End-Game Content without using the Labyrinth's Goodies.

It's just the horrible optimization which came along with Ascendancy. When the game is way more stable pre-Awakening its a big turn-off and frustrates player experience more.

Many classes were nerf'd in order to make acd skills non op. I gained 600dps with 6pts. Its a slight increase but kinda broke even.

Would of lost 15% sheet dps + nerfed poison (both in tree nodes and gem). My beartrap is now called cubtrap with the bino's nerf as well. Did i mention bladefall got a 130% to 90?

To get back to where i was this was mandatory.

Id also like to add "all traps going off on hit" or whatever its called, ruins my beartrap kiting. Stupid passive but has other stuff.

^this.

I'm bookmarking THIS response so I can shove it in the face of every white knight who comes to GGG's rescue with the lame excuse "But it's OPTIONAL!".

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Kroughfire wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that it *is* optional.

see my previous post, just up there^^

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Just get to end game, then plow through the first two difficulties of the lab in 10 minutes each

Where's the button I can push so the lab takes me only 10 minutes on the first run through? Oh that's right... THERE ISN'T ONE! And my first run throug merc lab, My client crashed when i was about 5 minutes (by my slow playstyle) from izaro 3. Such bullshit. I might have even died but i still don't know because every time i think of starting up the game again i get this nauseated feeling in my gut. Maybe later tonight? I dunno...

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, and then the 2 last points can wait for whenever you want to pay someone to run it for you. You don't ever have to look at it again after that.

Oh thanks for giving me permission not to eat the yard of shit again after that. I appreciate the generosity

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While I understand that many people won't partake in the lab after they have their points, I don't know why it's worth quitting the game over. It is literally exactly the same as before if you don't look twice at the lab.

No it isn't. Passive notables and items have been nerfed to compensate for the OP ascendancy system. Pay attention to what's happened to poison, Bino's, Consuming Dark, DOT, crit nodes, etc. and rethink your position.

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joachimbond wrote:

No it isn't. Passive notables and items have been nerfed to compensate for the OP ascendancy system. Pay attention to what's happened to poison, Bino's, Consuming Dark, DOT, crit nodes, etc. and rethink your position.

They were nerfed because they were OP, not to compensate for ascension. The damage on poison was ridiculous, and almost everybody ran with bino's last league. Same for crit, except it has been OP since forever.

Overall, I think it's the same as people complaining about releveling every char they make. We spent about 10 hours just getting to the point where our builds get playable, and it's more or less running through as fast as we can. The lab is only a fraction of that.

Ultimately I think the implementation of the Labyrinth system has some serious issues, as seen in this and other threads. Perhaps there is a balanced medium that can ultimately work for most players; but the system as it exists today just doesn't accomplish that goal.

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Kroughfire wrote:

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joachimbond wrote:

Passive notables and items have been nerfed to compensate for the OP ascendancy system. Pay attention to what's happened to poison, Bino's, Consuming Dark, DOT, crit nodes, etc. and rethink your position.

They were nerfed because they were OP, not to compensate for ascension. The damage on poison was ridiculous, and almost everybody ran with bino's last league. Same for crit, except it has been OP since forever.

Overall, I think it's the same as people complaining about releveling every char they make. We spent about 10 hours just getting to the point where our builds get playable, and it's more or less running through as fast as we can. The lab is only a fraction of that.

Apparently GGG's error here was that they decided to nerf anything, at all, at the same time as introducing Ascendancy classes. Nevermind the utter lack of global monster buffs or global player nerfs, just because the OP build du jour got knocked down a peg, it's obviously Ascendancy classes' fault somehow, not that every single major patch in the multi-year history of the game has included targeted nerfs of OP shit.

Next we're going to hear that Incinerate nerf and new SRS AI were because of Talismans.

joachimbond, your build was nerfed because poison and crit were OP in 2.1. Simple as that. Take the tinfoil hat off already.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

[...]

joachimbond, your build was nerfed because poison and crit were OP in 2.1. Simple as that. Take the tinfoil hat off already.

It wasn't my build. I was running CoC disc for the most part, and not leaning heavily on multi.

so :PpPpPp

So I just ripped my lvl 60 Chieftain(HC) to Cruel Izaro. I outleveled the zone by 5 levels.

During the first two encounters with him, I killed him as quickly as I could because his spike damage, you know...that damage that GGG said was allowed in the game because we can portal out???, was taking me down to 40% in one hit. Maxed(over maxed) resistances, 2.2khp, 7k armor, almost 300 life region. For completely self found, that ain't bad. So like I said, first two encounters I killed him as quick as I could to avoid dying, while trying to kill at least one pillar each time.

Get to the third fight...pressure spikes, poison darts, skeletons...dead in 10 seconds. Two shotted.

GGG...Why did you design Izaro to two-shot a decently geared player that outlevels Izaro by 5 levels if you won't allow him to portal out? Bullshit.

I like labryinth. I hate that it is required to experience the ascendancy classes.

One character in this league...might be my last in this league, if not permanently. Taking a few days off at least.