Quitting PoE after years due to Labyrinth System

1) I dint not quote you when i wrote my previous post, but you are clearly offended by the post.

2) You quoted my response, though you did not answer anything. How car-racing mechanic could fit into poe? Lets say a crazy King named Carzaro, was obsessed with rhoa racing contests, and all of the sudden their old racing grounds have been found again. Now its your time to ride a rhoa and best everyone to get access to the new Descendancy Tree, overcome obstacles, grab food (power ups) and use your mind to quickly find the shortest route to make the best time possible. Carzaro's racing grounds are waiting for you!

3) Anything ever locked in PoE's history of expansions was items, i dont think you understand the importance of the Tree (or the sub-tree as it is) being locked.

a)Sacrifice of the Vaal : You didnt want /could not do Atziri that was fine, you didnt get to have her axe and gloves, you could still do side vaal areas, find and use vaal gems, use vaal orbs and fight in the newly implemented Sarn Arena. I dont see any gating beside items and not a change to gameplay style. You could skip all of the new content and the only things you would miss would be items.

b)Forsaken Masters : You didnt want to level masters that was fine ,you didnt get to have their crafts. Hideouts were also introduced and some bosses reworked too. I dont see any gating beside items and not a change to gameplay style. You could skipp all of the new content and the only things you would miss would be the items.

c) The Awakening : New act and new jewels The new act alone was the most anticipated mandatory contend and players were waiting for a4 for a long time. GGG delivered, with hard content true to PoE's history. Nothing was gated cause that was actually an addition to the main game and storyline. Also EVERYONE could use the jewels (which are trully powerful) and part of the skill tree. So again, i dont see any gating of any kind.

d) Ascendancy : Trials, the Labyrinth and Ascedancy Classes thats what this expansion offers. You dont want to do the Labyrinth (and the trials), what do you actually miss? Labyrinth-only uniques , the treasure chest, the enchantments and the ascendancy classes. So its the first and only expansion until now where GGG actually gated something more than just items, they gated the Ascendancy classes ( which are similar to Jewel addition to skill tree and/or Upgrade to the existing one) in an optional content update which also introduced a totally new playstyle, instead of fast paced action now you have to observe and wait and calculate. And if you just quicksilver through the lab then you cant actually have any point on your side since you skip the content yourself too, to just get the AC points without having the fun that the traps and the whole labyrinth run has to offer based on feedback from the "lovers"

The three first expansions only gated items, now labyrinth not only gates items (as all the previous expansions) but if you dont do it like the previous ones you lose the biggest part of the ascendancy expansion which is the classes. Guess which expansion actually broke the pattern.

4) My opinion that labyrinth is alienating, unexciting, boring and frustrating was given to alpha forums, unfortunately very few people cared to share their opinions on that matter and instead analyzed mechanics, reported bugs in the labyrinth etc. Not that there is something wrong about posting bugs, but people actually did not see that kind of thing coming, cause you know... HYPE. And i was hyped too but also unsure about the direction.

5) If anything else the way im using the "white knight" term is the oldest meaning and how it started being used. Though not old enough to have lived during the time the term became more widely popular, old enough to know what its supposed to mean (i dont really care how you perceive the term ).

6) Being too young is in no way an insult, certain things are just harder to comprehend in a younger age, in no way a derogatory usage of the word. Being to blind to see means that someone is not careful enough and/or lazy to read the points and in some lesser extend has the same meaning as the "too young to understand".

7) I dont see any reason to insult anyone to get my point understood. My arguments are more than enough to speak my case which still stands mostly uncontested (except maybe 1-2 points made in other threads that were though answered from other people supporting the case i support too). Dont get emotional (someone said that for no apparent reason too).

Farewell, fellow supporter.

As for the Lab:
The Labyrinth is to ascension. What is ascension? A means to high power. If GGG didn't force the one death done rule in the maze, how does it feel?

When GGG made this expansion, they had some core pillars in mind. One of them being satisfaction of ascension. If there was no challenge, where's the satisfaction?

As for the game itself, it has been broken by the community, not by the devs. The whole 'race-car' meta was developed because it was the fastest way to achieve end game. Game designers need to design around things that keep players, and this meta was keeping players.

Sure, I believe that a WHOLE reset is painful for softcore, but I also believe it is required for the ascension to feel anything to begin with.

Just my 2 wisdom scrolls.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

I am saying that I don't want traps or puzzles any platformer timing type mechanics at all. Those things do not belong in POE. I don't want to endure them now or in the the future of POE, so I am speaking up about it. It is not about being capable of doing it or not. If that is the game now I will have to decide whether or not I want to continue playing POE. Your apologetic gymnastics do not address this POV.

Well thats a shame they aren't going anywhere. Refer to above as to why.

Yes, shameful.

The game-play of POE is character building through gear, skills and stats that you continually test real-time against NPCs and/or PCs, then refine repeat. I've spent 700+ hours doing it and I love it. Navigating environmental hazards with manual dexterity and flipping door levers is not the game I described. I don't know why you think everyone should be okay with this because it is a fundamental change that clashes with the existing game. This is a big deal if it stays this way and will alienate some of POE's core audience. Though you may enjoy the new content, this kind of controversy is not good for the longevity of POE. I've seen player-bases evaporate in other games because of poorly received changes.

"

SerythXavier wrote:

Farewell, fellow supporter.

As for the Lab:
The Labyrinth is to ascension. What is ascension? A means to high power. If GGG didn't force the one death done rule in the maze, how does it feel?

When GGG made this expansion, they had some core pillars in mind. One of them being satisfaction of ascension. If there was no challenge, where's the satisfaction?

As for the game itself, it has been broken by the community, not by the devs. The whole 'race-car' meta was developed because it was the fastest way to achieve end game. Game designers need to design around things that keep players, and this meta was keeping players.

Sure, I believe that a WHOLE reset is painful for softcore, but I also believe it is required for the ascension to feel anything to begin with.

Just my 2 wisdom scrolls.

On the flip side, if the challenge is mind-numbing and not fun, where is the satisfaction? I like the point about designing around things that keep players - the Labyrinth is such a major departure gameplay style, I really wish it had been built into the flow of the game in a more optional way. And yes, I know the Labyrinth is technically optional, but I imagine 99% of the players out there won't see it that way with Ascendancy being gated behind it. If the Labyrinth kept the enchantments only gated behind it, I doubt we'd be seeing anywhere near the hate for it.

"

Regulator wrote:

d) Ascendancy : Trials, the Labyrinth and Ascedancy Classes thats what this expansion offers. You dont want to do the Labyrinth (and the trials), what do you actually miss? Labyrinth-only uniques , the treasure chest, the enchantments and the ascendancy classes. So its the first and only expansion until now where GGG actually gated something more than just items, they gated the Ascendancy classes ( which are similar to Jewel addition to skill tree and/or Upgrade to the existing one) in an optional content update which also introduced a totally new playstyle, instead of fast paced action now you have to observe and wait and calculate. And if you just quicksilver through the lab then you cant actually have any point on your side since you skip the content yourself too, to just get the AC points without having the fun that the traps and the whole labyrinth run has to offer based on feedback from the "lovers"

The three first expansions only gated items, now labyrinth not only gates items (as all the previous expansions) but if you dont do it like the previous ones you lose the biggest part of the ascendancy expansion which is the classes. Guess which expansion actually broke the pattern.

4) My opinion that labyrinth is alienating, unexciting, boring and frustrating was given to alpha forums, unfortunately very few people cared to share their opinions on that matter and instead analyzed mechanics, reported bugs in the labyrinth etc. Not that there is something wrong about posting bugs, but people actually did not see that kind of thing coming, cause you know... HYPE. And i was hyped too but also unsure about the direction.

Cutout the not really relevant part, we know that expansions have always "gated" something in one way or another, this simply is a different type of challenge.

Expansions don't have to be something that is fun for everyone, as many people don't like various previous ones and what they have done to the game, but you have to understand that they won't really change much about them, like for example you being able to just get the points for free because you don't find the content fun.

@seryth explained it quite well

So using excuses like it doesn't fit, its a mini game or whatever bullshit excuse you want to use to try and say it doesn't fit, it was clear for a very long time GGG was going to do this, more warning on this expansion then any other in the past. Not only that its something that isn't massively time consuming unless you want various enchantments, which are optional and are the "item part" that is gated by this expansion.

However because the content isn't grind based or RNG based like previous expansions, its skill based it becomes "less fun" when you feel like its "challenging" maybe if thats not even in terms of difficulty but the fact you have to do various task to benefit from the addition.


It sucks that some people don't like it, it sucks that OP thinks its worth quitting over, despite only having to go thru it once when they push out that update (for his standard character) 1 unfun element or even 2 unfun ones shouldn't push people away from the game, especially because its not that hard to push thru it to get the enjoyment you know you can get from the game.


Many many people dislike various aspects of previous expansions and what they have done to the game, still they are here and playing the game even after it not fitting their expectations.

Stick with it, but don't expect them to change anything major. Also stop using bullshit to spread your point like "it doesn't fit" it clearly does.

"

goetzjam wrote:

So using excuses like it doesn't fit, its a mini game or whatever bullshit excuse you want to use to try and say it doesn't fit, it was clear for a very long time GGG was going to do this, more warning on this expansion then any other in the past. Not only that its something that isn't massively time consuming unless you want various enchantments, which are optional and are the "item part" that is gated by this expansion.

However because the content isn't grind based or RNG based like previous expansions, its skill based it becomes "less fun" when you feel like its "challenging" maybe if thats not even in terms of difficulty but the fact you have to do various task to benefit from the addition.


It sucks that some people don't like it, it sucks that OP thinks its worth quitting over, despite only having to go thru it once when they push out that update (for his standard character) 1 unfun element or even 2 unfun ones shouldn't push people away from the game, especially because its not that hard to push thru it to get the enjoyment you know you can get from the game.


Many many people dislike various aspects of previous expansions and what they have done to the game, still they are here and playing the game even after it not fitting their expectations.

Stick with it, but don't expect them to change anything major. Also stop using bullshit to spread your point like "it doesn't fit" it clearly does.

You either love it or hate it, many people hate it, many people love it. The only thing I like about this expansion is the ascendancy classes, otherwise I just ran through the labyrinth as fast as I could.

I suppose the enchantments are useful, but I'm not going to run the lab 1000s of times to get the three enchants I want. Economically it's a waste of time, you get more running maps. You don't get much XP either for it if you're lvl 85+.

It made a lot of classes that weren't viable, viable. Chaos firestorm, self-cast incinerate is back, chaos flameblast is great paired with a wither totem and so on. That's good I guess, but it's pretty obvious there's going to be some sort of massive power creep next patch. It's easier than ever to get over 100k dps.

lol what is the point of these posts? Are you really narcissistic enough to think you're important enough to announce your departure as if GGG will have any empathy for you? If you think your departure holds any weight, you might as well post on reddit. If you don't like the direction of the game, the door is right there. You don't have to say a word on your way out. NObody will miss you. Good riddance.

GGG has split the community it seems. Some people love it, some people hate it. They cannot win from this position, either way they are going to lose players.

"

illmtk wrote:

lol what is the point of these posts? Are you really narcissistic enough to think you're important enough to announce your departure as if GGG will have any empathy for you? If you think your departure holds any weight, you might as well post on reddit. If you don't like the direction of the game, the door is right there. You don't have to say a word on your way out. NObody will miss you. Good riddance.

Well, I imagine that the point is that GGG will read these posts on their own message boards and think "Oh no, we are losing customers. Maybe we should consider their concerns. We are a business that depends on customers after all."

"

Vortextreme wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

I am saying that I don't want traps or puzzles any platformer timing type mechanics at all. Those things do not belong in POE. I don't want to endure them now or in the the future of POE, so I am speaking up about it. It is not about being capable of doing it or not. If that is the game now I will have to decide whether or not I want to continue playing POE. Your apologetic gymnastics do not address this POV.

Well thats a shame they aren't going anywhere. Refer to above as to why.

Yes, shameful.

The game-play of POE is character building through gear, skills and stats that you continually test real-time against NPCs and/or PCs, then refine repeat. I've spent 700+ hours doing it and I love it. Navigating environmental hazards with manual dexterity and flipping door levers is not the game I described. I don't know why you think everyone should be okay with this because it is a fundamental change that clashes with the existing game. This is a big deal if it stays this way and will alienate some of POE's core audience. Though you may enjoy the new content, this kind of controversy is not good for the longevity of POE. I've seen player-bases evaporate in other games because of poorly received changes.

+1 to both the inner quote and the post. thos who enjoy "hardcore" (platformers) are welcome to play through "meatboy" etc. with disabled saves between levels