Quitting PoE after years due to Labyrinth System

Hi

As long as any player can make cool builds without ascension then it is fine because everyone knows that when a player is over 90 they'll probably finally try the lab, anyways. Meanwhile others will try to get the lab done sooner, I am of this latter. 2 hours last night went by fairly quick, almost died a few times but I got my ascendancy points:) Be aware of the twists and turns the lab creates, don't grab darkshrines unless your ready, watch for broken walls and switches.

The lab has some tricks up its sleeve but if you time your moves good and have whirling blades, quicksilver flasks handy, the lab shouldn't be so bad and yes after many leagues I have made a melee character and bamboozled my way through that Izaro without reading any spoilers and being a completely under geared duel wielding madman of a duelist.

I would really enjoy if the bosses in the lab dropped perandus coin also for more synergy:P

cheers

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Two things GGG should never, ever do:
1. Give Ascendancy points to anyone for anything other than beating the Labyrinth (reward only those who complete optional content)
2. Require Ascendancy points to complete endgame content, rebalance content around Ascendancy classes, etc. (ensure content remains optional)

So far, they've done neither. May it remain that way.

If you want Knights of the Round, it's time to hone your chocobo racing skills. Deal with it.

I don't think they will ever do 1, but I can see them doing 2 if they deem it necessary to balance.

"

Thing is, there is nothing me or You "must" do in any game, not in PoE either. I only do something, if feeling it's entertaining. And for first time in 2,5 years of this, skipping something I do not wish to do in this (not the first or only thing), ruins the rest of it. Because now I will miss a lot, will miss one of core features on chars. And not so delighted, since was earlier pretty much best game so far I have played. Very very surprised by this patch, and how different this is now. If PoE had been such trap dodging thingy earlier, would not had installed it in the first place.

And no, You do not need to level characters after long time playing this game, if wish to have some end-game fun. Can use some old char, just respec it. I'm not a huge fan of leveling phase of char anymore either, done it many many times already... is reason why I have already some time now, mostly been playing around with respecced old chars I have. Not possible now, unless using time a lot on something that does not feel fun at all, not one bit. I'd never ever install a game that is about some trap dodging... not interested in such. Totally different type of gameplay was for me the reason to play this.

Surely, PoE not all about lab now, but for me, and time I can put into this per day, would mean following next weeks. And even if I've been casual player compared to some, I do have used a lot more $$$ to this, than most of new games even cost. Also more casual players do support good work, as someone hinted, is not the case. Thinking this was in overall not good patch for GGG either. Will be losing many customers if have thick skulls about this.

Perhaps the "must do" depends on what your goal is of the game. Assuming most people's goals are to reach at least mid level maps "must do" is assumed for various things. Skipping 1 thing ruins the rest of it for you, yeah ok, I skip leveling a lot of masters in leagues despite them being powerful because its boring to me, I still however do enough to get the very basic benefits they provide. Much like running the lab 3 times to get all 6 skill points for your ascendancy class.


There are multiple ways to deal with the traps depending on builds, not only that if you aren't leveling additional characters and just respecing ones, you only have to run the lab in merciless once to get all points (after they patch it, for existing perm league characters) You can change any points withing the same tree for 5 regrets each or change class completely from a different ascendancy class like champion>gladiator, but that will require running the lab again.

Regardless the amount of times perm league characters have to run this is so very few. If you can't suck it up to do something you don't fully enjoy in order to gain the benefits of ascension and are going to quit over it, then nothing I say will stop you, because you are the type of player that quits over 1 minor inconvenience to your current playstyle.

"

I would really enjoy if the bosses in the lab dropped perandus coin also for more synergy:P

The lab is expansion content not league content it doesn't have to interact at all, coins from the specific mobs are good enough.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Two things GGG should never, ever do:
1. Give Ascendancy points to anyone for anything other than beating the Labyrinth (reward only those who complete optional content)
2. Require Ascendancy points to complete endgame content, rebalance content around Ascendancy classes, etc. (ensure content remains optional)

So far, they've done neither. May it remain that way.

If you want Knights of the Round, it's time to hone your chocobo racing skills. Deal with it.

I don't think they will ever do 1, but I can see them doing 2 if they deem it necessary to balance.

They've already done number 1.

KotR is not in the same reward tier as ascendancy points. Ascendancy points are on a much lower level, advanced character progression, which is just above basic character progression. Equivalent KotR in PoE would be BiS mirror items, which no one is asking for.

Edit: Just for fun what's FF7's equivalent to ascendancy points? Source items. They affect basic character progression and have an affect on items and materia used but you don't automatically get them, you have to earn them. (assuming you didn't use the item dupe glitch :P)

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

I want clarification, what did you hate the most about it?

Now that i can pass the traps without a hitch.. the only thing i hate about it is its presence in a game that is completely different in every other respect. It should not exist, in this game. Put it somewhere where the auto-back-patting reflex kings can tell themselves how great they are all day. Don't put it smack in the way of my full enjoyment of a game that is NOT about puzzles, levers, and traps. If that's the direction the game is headed, I've made my intentions clear numerous times. Right now i only have the stomach for one shot at the lab per session. That's about 15-20 minutes for me right now. Izaro in merc killed me, but I know I could learn the fight if I had a waypoint and he just reset every time i went in. But the slog... feh. Yes, 15 minutes is a frickin' slog. It's not fun. If i had all the mirrored gear of that one guy who's doing 5:22 runs of lab (including load screens), I could be doing it in 5 minutes(edit: probably more like 7-8, since i'm slower natured anyway), then it wouldn't seem so bad. But it's still eating a shit sandwich just to get the bread.

"

Not a single trap in the lab is lethal. not a one. they are all built around taking a % of your life. so you can technically run the traps in merci with a pathetic life pool.

If you had been paying attention you would know by now that the lethality of the traps isn't the main beef. It's the existence of hoppy-hoppy-jump-jump in a game that's NOT about that.

I should make a stream video showing the atrocious lack of precision in navigation that this game possesses. That way, people who just dash through would understand those who (like myself) want to look at the situation before charging through it. I sometimes overshoot my intended resting spot and get tagged by a trap. Why? because the damn game decided I clicked around the corner from where i actually clicked.

"

you might get a few dangerous combinations of traps. but other than that it is a pretty straight forward affair.

yes, if you phase run and lightning warp your way through it sure is

"

And izaro is dangerous pretty much exclusively to melee and low hp ranged builds. if you need someone to run you through the laby just to progress, then just ask. it is a pretty well established strategy to skip the lab until you complete a difficulty and then come back to it later.

progression doesn’t have to be so strictly linear.

That's just a lame excuse for poor design.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Perhaps the "must do" depends on what your goal is of the game. Assuming most people's goals are to reach at least mid level maps "must do" is assumed for various things. Skipping 1 thing ruins the rest of it for you, yeah ok, I skip leveling a lot of masters in leagues despite them being powerful because its boring to me, I still however do enough to get the very basic benefits they provide. Much like running the lab 3 times to get all 6 skill points for your ascendancy class.


There are multiple ways to deal with the traps depending on builds, not only that if you aren't leveling additional characters and just respecing ones, you only have to run the lab in merciless once to get all points (after they patch it, for existing perm league characters) You can change any points withing the same tree for 5 regrets each or change class completely from a different ascendancy class like champion>gladiator, but that will require running the lab again.

Regardless the amount of times perm league characters have to run this is so very few. If you can't suck it up to do something you don't fully enjoy in order to gain the benefits of ascension and are going to quit over it, then nothing I say will stop you, because you are the type of player that quits over 1 minor inconvenience to your current playstyle.

This true, goal also makes a difference, for sure. Mine goal is, when working around a char, to make it as good as possible, and a fresh build. Reaching mid-level maps I consider as usual business, and needed on the way forward. Some mid level maps certainly not goals of any kind... But if this is goal, then sure, can call these points "optionals". And then only can also call this labyrinth "optional".

Making good as possible char pretty common goal I suppose... not maybe goal for all copy-pasters out there, not sure of their goals tbh, since are not creating then a build at all, or anything else... just copying and clicking mouse then. But for me this is. I think if I just decide to skip labyrinths, I cannot reach much with any char. Doesn't take much to realize, such char not good if compared to one with those 6 points in use.

If goal is good char, can hardly compare skipping masters to this... A really really good item, has no master mod on it, in most cases... And also doubting many mirrored ones for example exist, with master mod on them... But a really really good char, DOES have ascendancy points used, all 6 of them, pretty much in all cases. Because of this, I think is fair to say, masters could be skipped, unlike this lab.

And nope, not the type of player that quits over 1 minor change, not the first time during few years of this, something is changed and needs me to do changes on chars or on playstyle. Not even closely the first. But since cannot use many hours a day, reworking my 14 chars would require me now some 2 weeks of labyrinth only... so is first time this bothers me. Can use around 1-2 hours a day, so far because of dc and lag deaths, not been possible for me to get those points. This makes the kinda player I am think, it is sucky that those points locked behind lab... pls do understand there are other reasons also why this bothers people, not lab being too hard. It is not, just takes forever, and cannot skip.

You are right, nothing You say would change my behaviour on this... Points behind Malachai kill instead of lab, would. That would change it all, and finding it hard to imagine it would kill the fun of lab, if someone finds it entertaining.

This would also give players a reason to actually complete the game, now many skip rest of act 4 on merc... Is odd this lab-thing is forced to run through, completing game and killing the big bad guy behind all, is optional feature... is odd, this also would get fixed then.

ForciblyBaptized

"

If goal is good char, can hardly compare skipping masters to this... A really really good item, has no master mod on it, in most cases... And also doubting many mirrored ones for example exist, with master mod on them... But a really really good char, DOES have ascendancy points used, all 6 of them, pretty much in all cases. Because of this, I think is fair to say, masters could be skipped, unlike this lab.

Its not specifically leveling the masters that is being skipped its the lost opportunity by not leveling them, especially in temp leagues, which I dont know if you play or not (probably not) For a standard player it really doesn't make a difference if you level them or not because the market is already saturated with many items with or without mods in all sorts of price ranges for all sorts of builds.

I think its important to remember that your goal, while reasonable the timeframe in which you think it should be done isn't. Why ascend all 14 of your characters at once? Why not stagger then and fully test out the classes so as not to put a negative stigma in your mind about how you have to do something that you didn't previously have to. I mean following the similar logic don't you have characters you have to kill dominus with again and then kill voll and get to mines 2 in EACH difficulty to get the additional skill point?

"

And nope, not the type of player that quits over 1 minor change, not the first time during few years of this, something is changed and needs me to do changes on chars or on playstyle. Not even closely the first. But since cannot use many hours a day, reworking my 14 chars would require me now some 2 weeks of labyrinth only... so is first time this bothers me. Can use around 1-2 hours a day, so far because of dc and lag deaths, not been possible for me to get those points. This makes the kinda player I am think, it is sucky that those points locked behind lab... pls do understand there are other reasons also why this bothers people, not lab being too hard. It is not, just takes forever, and cannot skip.

Why must they all ascend at once, you can't possibly even give them enough attention to ascend more then a handful of them. I think a lot of standard players are offset by this because they look at the big picture instead of eating bit by bit. Yes the servers have had issues but you can't be like "im done with this game just make it easy one me" that isn't an answer and honestly that shouldn't be behavior from a player that seems like they are at least somewhat experienced.

GGG SPECIFICALLY said they will patch it so you only have to run merciless lab in perm leagues (so standard and hardcore) once that happens its 1\3 the work on your 14 characters, seems much easier right?

"

You are right, nothing You say would change my behaviour on this... Points behind Malachai kill instead of lab, would. That would change it all, and finding it hard to imagine it would kill the fun of lab, if someone finds it entertaining.

Because malachai is a fucking joke, he technically is a higher level then the lab boss, but nothing going up to him is even a challenge except maybe act 4 piety depending on your build. Not only that this removes the challenge of the traps, the mechanics of the labs and introduces the ability to cheese to get the ascendancy points. Its simply not an acceptable solution.

"

This would also give players a reason to actually complete the game, now many skip rest of act 4 on merc... Is odd this lab-thing is forced to run through, completing game and killing the big bad guy behind all, is optional feature... is odd, this also would get fixed then

There is no "complete the game" you can complete the story line in merciless it was left optional for a reason, not only that the previous "end" was optional as well. If you want them to make an incentive to do him (which IMO there likely already is, then thats another topic on its own.

You aren't forced to run thru the lab to do anything else in the game, you can get all the way to level 100 without it, as GGG didn't increase the difficulty of the mobs in conjunction with ascendancy. You only feel like you are forced because you want the cool perks, well thats great and everything but I don't get a 6 link without putting fusings or currency on buying one, similarly you don't get the points without doing the lab.

"

sidtherat wrote:

this is a L2P update

so players that get carried hard by their copypasted FOTM build have a chance to understand how bad at this game they really are

some did - and they are improving. some did not and are spending their time trying to swim upstream

'mobs yield no xp'? when you do the lab ONCE for last 2 asc points mobs are 68 so are you so they DO yield xp. so what was your point? that your cookie cutter build that you use to right-click to the game cannot carry you trough a content requiring basic skills? tough. maybe that was the intention behind this lab. power creep allowed pretty mediocre players to roflstomp everything making the 'hardcore' part a joke.

You cant read very well, the lab wsnt hard, did it on fri, merc then cruel then normal. Died maybe one time. 68 is t1 map xp...

Im an evasion char you twit, easiest lab char. I also play like 7 other chars.

Man, he's not about making sense. He's about feeling like he's a better player than anyone who doesn't like what to him is some sort of exercise in skill (as you pointed out, it's not much of one)

Quitting is a bit extreme until we see how ggg handles this situation. Currently its not looking good, they said a fix would take one day. Its been more than one day.

Im only doing dialys now, i dont even look for the boss in the zana maps, just get it done and load up grim dawn.

Havent given up hope. First played poe in 2012 (a2 beta), came back like a month or two ago. I dont have a lot vested in it. It has gotten 143423423x better, but this is a major step back.

"

joachimbond wrote:

Now that i can pass the traps without a hitch.. the only thing i hate about it is its presence in a game that is completely different in every other respect.

So having diversity in gameplay is a problem for you?
uhm... tell me more

i dont understand what people hate so much about the lab, besides the clearly unbalanced bosses. Its fun to you know... think for a few seconds while playing.

one thing that bothers me about this whole game and genra is how mindlessly it can be played, depending on your build and play style, yes.