Labyrinth,the worst content ever made in POE?

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Turtledove wrote:

Simply put, he's just saying that the labyrinth is not fun for him and then tried to explain why it is so boring tedious and not fun for him. Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes. I don't like caramel. That doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't like caramel either. Actually, I would guess that the group not liking caramel is a smaller percentage of total PoE players than the group of PoE players that don't really enjoy the labyrinth.

His reasons are fairly analogue to the reasons the FPS genre went to shit (I want to shoot stuff! I don't want to think about ammo, level navigation, nor have any possibility of death). Patience and action are not mutually exclusive. Better action games like Devil May Cry, God of War or Dark Souls have space for that kind of stuff, it's just here in PoE that you see people whining for having to reduce their speed a little (and it's not that much, some people have no speed reduction with practice). They have no patience, and I wonder if the game will be healthy in the long run catering to them.

If some people don't want to see the game converted to Super Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider, I don't want it to be converted to Call of Duty.

I saw this coming since Malachai and before.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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sil222 wrote:

while this game shud be action packed with the traps in the labyrinth it is nothing but standing still and waiting for the right opportunity to speed through it just to hit the next wall of traps to wait again. waiting for lava to go away has nothing to do with skill but with patience, which should not be a must have top tier required skill in a game like this.

So we should have patience for loot drops but no for movement because reasons. Got it.

drops is something completly different. mapping wud be fun if u had to wait 20 seconds after u killed a bunch of mobs because the game doesnt allow u to move any further. just to stop because reasons. got it.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Better action games like Devil May Cry, God of War or Dark Souls have space for that kind of stuff, it's just here in PoE that you see people whining for having to reduce their speed a little (and it's not that much, some people have no speed reduction with practice). They have no patience, and I wonder if the game will be healthy in the long run catering to them.

How its even possible these titles to be compared to path of exile? Seriously like wtf? All the games mentioned have an adventure element that poe never had. And there is actually no problem to have it now (or is there?), its good for a company to experiment, but WHY THE FUCK force it to so many people? If you are going to put experimental content at least do NOT implement it in the most abnoxious way possible, do not restrict/prevent so many players enjoying something so important to character customization.

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NeroNoah wrote:

If some people don't want to see the game converted to Super Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider, I don't want it to be converted to Call of Duty.

So its okay to bastardize the game and force the atrocity to the players? Labyrinth being completely optional (no AC gating) would appeal to you and the rest white knights and bots, that consider it a skill based challenge/content (ha!) while also keeping the rest of the playerbase engaged with the new Classes. Take off the blindfolds.

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NeroNoah wrote:

I saw this coming since Malachai and before.

And you didnt do anything? Shame on you. What a black day that must be for the white knights, a day when they could prevent such alienating, controversial and dividing content from ever plaguing the game. A game they so blatantly claim to love, while their sayings speak a different story.

Labyrinth the way its implemented, is, if not the worst content, surely the most controversial and dividing one. Almost a month in the expansion and this debate and other similar debates still hold, says a lot, doesnt it?

Whats the worst thing of all though is that due to pure hype (and nothing else) a lot of people just did the trials and the lab to ascend not minding the consequences of such an implementation. And their runs (done out of pure necessity to improve their character as it is only natural for an ARPG) dilute statistics regarding the lab. The average person doesnt run the lab to get the enchantments (no-lifers and bots do that) the average person runs the lab to get the AC points and never again sets a foot in there, thats how bad this whole situation is. I just hope these people realise that sooner than later and force a change with their voices.

One of worst and saddest thing: GGG still not changed enhancement ridiculous rng system... Eh it's dead and only helps scammers.

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sil222 wrote:

drops is something completly different. mapping wud be fun if u had to wait 20 seconds after u killed a bunch of mobs because the game doesnt allow u to move any further. just to stop because reasons. got it.

If you have patience for a good drop (that requires mindless grinding), you should have some patience for a trap. The only difference is that the later requires a little (not that much) brain and to stop moving for a few seconds from time to time to avoid stuff. Seriously. For a game that asks so much patience, some people have none.

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Regulator wrote:

How its even possible these titles to be compared to path of exile? Seriously like wtf? All the games mentioned have an adventure element that poe never had. And there is actually no problem to have it now (or is there?), its good for a company to experiment, but WHY THE FUCK force it to so many people? If you are going to put experimental content at least do NOT implement it in the most abnoxious way possible, do not restrict/prevent so many players enjoying something so important to character customization.

All are action games, the people playing those don't seem to mind. I wonder why is not a problem, but people here seem to hate it so much. When stopping for a few seconds to avoid stuff become boring?

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Regulator wrote:

So its okay to bastardize the game and force the atrocity to the players? Labyrinth being completely optional (no AC gating) would appeal to you and the rest white knights and bots, that consider it a skill based challenge/content (ha!) while also keeping the rest of the playerbase engaged with the new Classes. Take off the blindfolds.

You are obsessed with purity in the genre. Your bastardization is my diversification (also, traps are not new to ARPGs anyway). Stop talking for all the playerbase, or even for a majority.

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Regulator wrote:

And you didnt do anything? Shame on you. What a black day that must be for the white knights, a day when they could prevent such alienating, controversial and dividing content from ever plaguing the game. A game they so blatantly claim to love, while their sayings speak a different story.

Labyrinth the way its implemented, is, if not the worst content, surely the most controversial and dividing one. Almost a month in the expansion and this debate and other similar debates still hold, says a lot, doesnt it?

Here are some debates that don't die in this game:

-Self found
-Act IV and III sucks, the bosses are not what ARPGs should be.
-The map system sucks.
-Trade sucks.

What says? It depends on who you ask.

Honestly, if the labyrinth culls away people so incendiary like you (and don't even believe for a second you are reasonable, you have shown otherwise), so be it. The intolerance to change and the entitlement I have seen have become too annoying. Write white knight all you want, it doesn't matter. I'm open to debate with people that hate the place, but you are not someone to debate with.

There cannot be two skies.

Regulator (RIP Nate Dogg) still hasnt answered my question about Nox, clearly an ARPG game, successfully and effortlessly (many ARPG fans loved Nox) having traps, gauntlets and such in its core game. I don't remember anyone crying 'traps shouldnt be in a diabloid' back in 2000

*still waiting*

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grepman wrote:

Regulator (RIP Nate Dogg) still hasnt answered my question about Nox, clearly an ARPG game, successfully and effortlessly (many ARPG fans loved Nox) having traps, gauntlets and such in its core game. I don't remember anyone crying 'traps shouldnt be in a diabloid' back in 2000

*still waiting*

Let's not forget the levers in Diablo 1, the floor spikes in Diablo 2 and Torchlight 2, and the trap gauntlets in Torchlight 1 (although those were like Unique Maps).

Outside Diablo like games, ARPGs have a lot of this stuff. Again, PoE seems exceptional in some people's eyes. It should be the way they say.

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NeroNoah wrote:

You are obsessed with purity in the genre. Your bastardization is my diversification (also, traps are not new to ARPGs anyway). Stop talking for all the playerbase, or even for a majority.

I wouldn't consider it being obsessed with purity of the genre. The way I'd characterize it is that some percentage of the player base (maybe 30% is my GUESS) doesn't find the labyrinth fun to play. I don't know what percentage but, I'd really consider this actual percentage to be key. If it was only 10% then maybe that's not enough to worry GGG and they should keep it the way it is. If it is much more than that then it may be enough that GGG will decide to make a change? When you take an existing game with an existing user base and make a change in the game play for some of the content then one is taking a risk. The risk being that some in the existing user base won't enjoy the new content. That is the situation that we're in right now. The key factor, in my opinion, as to what should best be done, if anything, is what percentage of that user base finds labyrinth play fun or not fun. GGG is in a better position to come to grips with that than I am. For example, they might poll a random sample or study the statistics they routinely collect for logouts and logons and player habits like that.

More important that how much people hate the place is the reasons they hate it. Just saying is boring doesn't cut it alone. For example, if you told me "I like to faceroll monsters in the game at high speeds without too much effort" I would cheer for the game to become hostile to your style of play, because I know the endgame for that kind of mentality (again, see FPS genre).

For all the complaints out there, the whole thing is fairly light at analysis.

You make good points about how to take a decision, though.

By important, I mean percentage of people that don't find the labyrinth fun. Why people don't find it fun is not important, with one exception that I can think of. That would be if GGG could make a change that makes it fun. My view on that question is that I doubt they could make a change that would make it fun for me. I've seen others that fall into that category. For example, people that say they just see the traps and that is enough for them to hate labyrinth. However, I think some don't like labyrinth because of something that can be fixed. Most notable in this category would be lag issues. These seem to now be more related to client issues. (I assume the server issues have been addressed already.)