Donald Trump

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Coatofarms wrote:

And Donald Trump w..

So it's the amount of people you deport that determines your Hitler level.
Also "privileged" heh. I love it when people make assumptions like that when people are pointing out facts. Also it's hilarious that you justify Obama's deportation but not Trump's.

[Quote="Coatofarms"]
Chris Christie is a scoundrel and a.. [/quote]

Nice ad hominem. Discredit the argument itself. You claim he has no credibility but provide no reason his credibility is lacking in this Situation so that falls flat. The rest of your counter stands on him being a "Scounrel and a liar" which is just ad hominem.


E: Oh boy more than 3/4 of my post got deleted. Fun.

Einkel:

Read up on "bridgegate". Christie is a crook and everybody knows it regardless of whether he is going to jail or not. it's like you didn't even read my full post. Oh right, your comprehension skills stink and regardless you don't know anything about anything anyways so who the fuck cares about your opinion?

Here's a fact, if you want to deport every single last illegal immigrant in this country like Trump does, you're a a bad person --a hitler. A presidential platform to deport all illegal immigrants from the US is unprecedented and definitely has a racial component to it. You ask yourself why the deep south and all the white supremacists are supporting Trump. Oh right, you don't give a fuck. Gee .. wonder why? /sarcasm

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NeroNoah wrote:

About taxes, I've read some libertarians equating taxes to theft. I understand their arguments, but I have to see a functional system without taxation. The only things that justifies taxes is a working system.

Whether you're a libertarian or not, taxation is theft. Whether it can be justified or not that doesn't change what it is. Even the old British socialist propaganda that they teach kids about Robin Hood doesn't deny that he was a thief, they just justify it by saying that the people he stole from were bad and that the people he gave to were needy.

If you demand that someone gives you something that belongs to them and threaten to put them in a cage and take away their children by force if they don't give you what you want, it's still theft, even if you're the government.

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coatofarms wrote:

you're a a bad person --a hitler.

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Poutsos wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

4) Fascism is left wing, not right wing. It is definitely a form of socialism, and the atrocities of the Holocaust were committed under the geas of Eugenicism, which again was a left wing, govt knows best philosophy.

It was the ultimate example govt controlling the means of production, with the "goods" being produced were the human race.

Tears of laughing out loud. You really are ignorant aren't you? You also discredited political science just like that.

Some are blessed with a good education from a reputable university. Others acquire their insight from personal.effort to understand the real.world. Others simply accept or reject information based on whether it fits the world paradigm they were taught growing up.

I'm going to co-opt one of Charan's sig lines and say that I value my shoes too much
to warrant risking probation. Suffice it to say that there are well researched scholarly books on the subject, and they have largely held up against would be critics. This isn't some off the wall assertion I made up, or just happened to hear on TV one day. I don't think the average PoE forum user has the time to read several hundred pages* of material to get the gist of it. The particular link I was hoping to find summarizes the research, has referenced links and rebutts the various counter claims, while being under 50.pages iirc.

*Those who have taken graduate level political science classes would read far more than this each day, just so they can follow along in the weekly symposiums. Level 400 and 500.polysci classes at a major university also require critical thinking skils.

If someone thinks they know what fascism is and how it came to be without understanding its progressive underpinnings, and roots in American eugenics and psychology, then that person needs to do some more reading. Seek or don't seek. The echoes of the past will continue to haunt the present so long as people are too lazy to check information on their own.

Please excuse my top posting . It is only because the device I have access to makes it a pain or impossible to scroll down. But it is in regards to the post I quote below.


When people look at trees, they usually see the leaves, branches and the trunk. They rarely see the roots, and they almost never see the tree breathing and drinking, growing and suffering, wriggling and mating. In failing to see the full dance of the tree's life, they fail to see the tree correctly and become idignant when so informed.

You have made a great number of misstatements by assuming opinion where only facts grow.

Citing a fact or noting a precedant does not imply endorsement or criticism. Noting that trees have chloroplasts does not imply that choloroplasts are good or evil, but that they simply are in trees.

3 of the 4 that I stated were simply facts regarding comments made in thread pertaining to the original post.
The fourth is a scholarly opinion, not of my originating. Like the concept of evolution was originally, the idea that something horrific grew out of an idealogy many cherish today can be unsettling. What we should cherish instead are the lives around us. To do this we must inspect ideas and philosophies for the attachments that signify posession by materialiasm and sophistry. As the tree sheds its leaves, so must people shed past ideals when they bring more harm than good.

If you truly care about someone, then you care about what happens to them, instead of caring more about how it happened or who did it to then. The how and who are only there to prevent or promote future happenings.
We have become a world where the who and why are paramount. Autumn leaves are mourned by experts who cut through the trees roots in order to bulld an monument to the leaves.

Please stop reading your opinions as my unstated intrepretation of facts. You are free to interpret the facts as you see fit but that does not make it my opinion.

Ask yourself which side of the border the 8 oz tea cup is on. Did you answer both? If not, than you will not understand my statements any better than a person who says a coin is "heads" or "tails" without realizing that the coin is always both at tne same time.

Many people confuse the spiritual leader of Buddhism (The Panchen Lama) with the political leader. The Dalai Lama does not partake in politics because he enjoys the incessant infighting and backstabbing. He does it because allowing people to suffer because of wrong ideas is an unacceptable burden on the human spirit.

I do respect you for speaking up in this thread. It shows that your heart is in the right place and that you care. If you would do more good than harm, please try to learn the underlying truths behind the issues you care about.

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coatofarms wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

1) https://www.kinoborderinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Screen-Shot-2015-07-07-at-7.50.27-AM.png

Deporations have been going on for awhile, 414 thousand last year by Obama.

And Donald Trump wants to deport 11 million (every single one of them). Since you're apparently a very callous and privileged person to think the way you do, that's breaking up families and deporting parents from their American- born children FYI. Aside from the fact that illegal immigrants aren't citizens, most of them are law-abiding and our crucial to our societal function. There is no reason to kick them out of the country.

And the roughly 400,000 listed as removals under Obama's 8 years, they could be the bad illegals that Trump is always talking about (the rapists, drug-dealers, thugs .. that is Trump's words). But don't act like every single illegal immigrant needs to be kicked out of the country.

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DalaiLama wrote:

2) What he means is that until the feds can demonstrate that their screening process is effective. Gov Christie echoed a similar sentiment during the last debate and mentioned a knowledgable source that the screening process is broken.

Chris Christie is a scoundrel and a liar. He has no credibility. I guess you were OK with him closing the bridge. You citing Christie as an authority tells me you know nothing about US politics and have very poor judgement. The reason why Christie is a fallen-candidate is because of the scandal surrounding the bridge, and you cite him?? Why choose a username called DalaiLama?

And banning all muslims from entering the US is discrimination based on religion. It's discrimination based on your identity. That is exactly like a Hitler. You seriously need to change your username, you're an embarrassment and I'm ashamed to even be corresponding with you.

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DalaiLama wrote:

3) Putin didn't endorse Godwins favorite, so #3 is meaningless.

Yes he did.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/putin-donald-trump-is-brilliant-russia-welcomes-his-presidency/

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DalaiLama wrote:

4) Fascism is left wing, not right wing. It is definitely a form of socialism, and the atrocities of the Holocaust were committed under the geas of Eugenicism, which again was a left wing, govt knows best philosophy.

Let's just say you're correct (you're not). Even so, just because someone is running as a republican doesn't mean he can't act like Hitler. This is the dumbest argument I've heard in a long time.

Please ask GGG to change your username. You're a silly person that brings shame upon Tibetan Buddhism.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Disrupted wrote:

yeah I know, I was considering not posting this before actually.
Im not even willing to, too much work with no pay-off (seriously, I could but for one to get enough info out it would take a large-scale investigation and no sane man would do it for cheap, much less free, so I just ask for the benefit of the doubt when watching/reading news instead) and some people are so deep in their bias that its stupid to think that it would have an effect on them at this point (you can easily see that in this thread). the right is definitely dangerous, but the left has come to a point where some dangers are considered to not be.
people shouldnt just be worried about SJWs, people like this always existed, but they should realize what environment fostered their growth lately, you cant force these extremes, you slowly make them grow.
Using a weird analogy, If SJWs are "90%" there's a dangerous normalization of "77%", what I wish for is to stabilize it, to reach an normalization of "65%".

I will not defend crushing one side while glorifying the other.
One can fight the poison that resides in both fronts. and the way for the average citizen to do so and not let himself be swayed is to stay informed, think critically and challenge oneself, and when finding about bullshit, to speak out civilly and pressure media into following journalist code of ethics. Considering the purposefully used disinformation on cases such as Trayvon Martin, and the consequences of such, there should definitely be a legal penalty for such. Also more recently that raid through the house of the San Bernardino shooters should definitely be punished (not for bias but still pretty criminal, media seems to be able to get away with anything currently).

So a risk that people underestimates is worse? I mean, one side literally wants to start WW3 and has fascists and theocrats, while the other one wants to restrict speech, likes affirmative actions/hates a subset of white people and they are generally unlikeable. I don't buy it. They are not being ignored at all, people hate their guts (except maybe the members of their bubble).

This is like the 70s and hippie bashing. They were treated like the end of civilization (and yes, there was a lot of riots on that time, they were more dangerous than SJWs; current activists are lazy and disorganized), but the overall effect was positive, that generation saw a lot of improvements on civil rights. I estimate that this will happen with progressives this generation. We'll have awful people to deal with but the overall effect will be positive.

One more thing: the media is concerned about profit. They may have an agenda, but it's generally beyond left or right, it's mere corporatism. They just love money, ethics be damned.

I think you are simplifying the issue. Its easy to say X is evil (and oh does the corrupt media wants you to think just that way), I think one should try to understand the why (on the right, and I am certain that people far extend the number of supremacists and whatnot) and Im talking of the 77% not just the 90%. the 90% are quick to consider 80% and down to be 10% and 0% (hell, actually, there are numerous cases of 90%s going at each others throats), while the 77% are conditioned to consider 40-50% and below to be 23% to 10% (and vice-versa, this considering 50% is centrist) .
Lastly, Political Correctness is a poison that should be reserved to informal relations between companies, it adds nothing to society, it stifles discussion because someone might be offended, it makes people afraid to speak up when what they have to say goes against the narrative, its more of a tool of fascism than anything... also no matter what you do, someone will always be offended.
and because one is not political correct, he doesnt automatically become an asshole (Trump is one, no other way about it, love him or hate him, he's an asshole, he's also not everyone that isnt PC).

Think about why Xavderion responded the way he did to DalaiLama post... and unsurprisingly DalaiLama, easily one of the best posters on this forum got called evil because he dared to think differently (or rather, just think).
You've seen a bit of the statistics regarding what is moderate in Islam, have you seen what the media propagates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk

Like I said, you dont have to believe me, in fact, I dont want you to do just that, I would be no better than those im criticizing.
All you need is to challenge your own beliefs, your own media. You will certainly come to the conclusion that you are right in some areas, but I think people would be surprised at how many of their beliefs are just that, beliefs, and how dangerously ingrained some have become.
Some people think the age of propaganda is over, but the truth is we are living in the golden age of it, but also the golden age of information, where one can find different opinions and information more easily thanks to the Internet, whether you are on the right or the left, beware of letting yourself become too comfortable with your own bias.
and yes, a danger that someone underestimates is definitely more dangerous.

Regarding profit and agenda in the media, we have a saying in Portugal, that I dont know if you have in other languages "Unir o útil ao agradável" so I'll translate "to join the useful with the pleasant", also its a bonus for the useful (useful being profit) because if you sell an idea to your audience that you are the right one, and others are bad, you will create a cult following, and more easily secure it and guarantee future revenue
A prime example of this is The Young Turks, they werent bad when they were young (huurr hurr puns) but they've become quite corrupt when it comes to bias.
I hadnt listened to them in a while last time I responded to sommeone here, but I did afterwards with the "pool case" and I noticed some things... they only put part of the video up.
they race baited like fuck, they ignored the white kid in the vid (but hey should the other kids be born different color to make it better for their eyes? its so difficult to realize its about the situation when the kids are "right color") and they blatantly lied (saying that the cop slams the girl onto the concrete), they didnt report on the other side, they demonized the residents of the area, they followed with a vid of "if you defend the cop you are a racist piece of shit", all of this while remembering continually that they bring out the facts and they are better than fox news... oh boy (dont remember if they got to refer the fact that one of the guys pretends to pull a gun on the cop and that's why he pulls his own, but wouldnt be surprised if they excused the guy's action and demonized the cop for such).
Well, The Young Turds have perhaps jumped the shark already, but lots of 77% still think they are fair. here's a challenge, go to TYT search bar and write "black", see the results, then write "white"... It will speak for itself... there's even at least one vid justifying their racism (something like "what is white previlege", this kind of brainwashing has been featured in MTV before as well btw) and non-news vids to induce hatred for whites (like this white girl cries because privelege something something).

and fuck I gotta go

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Poutsos wrote:

"

DalaiLama wrote:

4) Fascism is left wing, not right wing. It is definitely a form of socialism, and the atrocities of the Holocaust were committed under the geas of Eugenicism, which again was a left wing, govt knows best philosophy.

It was the ultimate example govt controlling the means of production, with the "goods" being produced were the human race.

Tears of laughing out loud. You really are ignorant aren't you? You also discredited political science just like that.

You are both wrong. Fascists are what it can be called "third way". A good start would be with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism. Some say it should be classified as right wing, but there are fundamental differences.

Not everything in the world can be classified as right or left (for example, old style peronists in my country, many decades ago).

Fascists have a lot of elements of the right socially, but economically they are interventionists, and that could be considered leftist (being that a bastardization, I truly dislike how people talk about regulations this days, :P).

Ironically, most right leaning governments are corporatists rather than caring about free market, so that's the reason they get called fascists. For example, the Republicans in their actual encarnation. There are few that actually live to the idea they sell. Milton Friedman must be rolling on his grave.

...

@Disrupted: PC is just a extreme reaction to bullying and discrimination. What is extreme depends on what kind of person are you. PC is misapplied a lot for that reason (when you are far right everything is PC). PC is the fringe of a necessary change in society. That's where my comparison with hippies comes. Counterculture behaves this way every generation.

I disagree PC (when the label is actually deserve) will become normalized, because I've seen wide rejection to it. Search the places in Europe where actual SJWs have governed to see how it would go. They won't be as destructive as other bullshit is out there, also, people are not that stupid. They will be voted out when reality spits to their face.

You are right to complain about them, and oppose them, but you are overestimating them. I see more dangerous things right now.

About muslims, yes, they can be trouble. A lot of them are not moderate at all. But the right way to do this is education. There are a lot of religious nuts in the world. You have to call them in their bullshit and bend them to your will. And not let them near political power. Political power is worse than any kind of terrorist attack, because it can damage millions of people for many generations, while terrorists can kill at most a few thousand in the west (muslims in particular are better killing muslims).

I oppose fundamental christianism with more fervor because they actually have more power to screw me even if they won't outright kill me (my country has basically jailed most of the far right because they screwed that bad, our "tea party" used fraud and force when they started to lose ground). Be that they induce the next depression, destroy the environment or reduce civil rights. Terrorists can only dream with that.

The only way to confront extremists (without stupid amounts of bloodshed) is to get them out of power, and then educate their base until they become non fundamentalists.

There are two reactions to things like refugees: blind acceptation (on the left mostly) and blind rejection. The proper way to do this is to educate them and integrate them to the west. They could be the key to secularizing middle east in the future. Merely rejecting them is just waiting for the Crusades in some decades. Merely accepting them means having consequences in the future (it will be awful, but let's be fair: they haven't done as much damage even with all the terrorist attacks combined and the poor economic adaptation).

Not taking risks is probably the worse thing the west could do now. This is like Attack on Titan; people can live behind a wall (be real or just isolating themselves for danger) or they can accept the casualties and understand and fight their enemy. They can choose to be cattle or wolves.

Hi,

I have found this:

This is going on in Africa:

http://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2015/refugees/index.html

This is going on in the middle east:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/clinton-rounds-trump-isil-recruiter-151220043002220.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/hezbollah-nasrallah-isil-lebanon-beirut-151114205459170.html

I admire AlJazeera, really good journalists, many of them imprisoned in several Arabic countries. One of my favorite bookmarks. It started as a BBC project, but was censored in Saudi Arabia, they moved to Doha/Qatar because of that. From the way of presenting news you can still see the BBC influence.

About the last two links: Not only ISIS recruits more, but also the reaction to that (ISIS is radical sunni, Hezbollah [or Hisb Allah] is radical shia] in the region now finds themselves in a stronger position(similar to Assad and the Iranian government).

I don´t remember exactly, but wasn´t there a comment on George W. Bush that said he opened the gates of hell ? Pretty close. Now not only the middle east but also Europe is suffering from the consequences.

Three things you need for democratic systems(my personal view) to last is some wealth, some security and stability, so all this effort trying to "change regimes" without further development/money will change things for the worse. You simply don´t have that in Afghanistan for example. And enough money is a prerequisite for both security and education.

I have the impression, that too many Americans have no idea, how much influence they have on the rest of the world(especially Trump voters). We have the same idiots here, they just don´t have such a big audience(Trump: global audience).

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NeroNoah wrote:

Awesome post.

So happy every time I see someone who has a grip on things. Being levelheaded and having a clue does not take all that much. But for whatever reason you don't really see it that often on the internet.