Donald Trump
" Coming from someone who lives in a country where 2 major parties are social democratic (center left and center right). I wouldnt consider him center. left yes, center? hell no. his views on geopolitical army removal and taxation along with "free" college make him sound like he dwells in lala-land. and whats worse is that he still may be one of the best candidates for the democrats. I think Mister Metokur put it best: " I think the vote for bernie sanders is carried by economic ignorance, wishful thinking and perhaps sadly, the lack of a better candidate. also since we are posting shameful moments in politics, to me this image/situation says a lot about him: http://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/e0fc6412-3e27-11e5-a580-5d86ec2e3b6f.jpg that was extremely pathetic Oblivious Last edited by Disrupted on Feb 9, 2016, 9:49:20 PM
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" Free college is fairly normal in social democracies (hell, I've studied in a free college, so I know it's not madness). It's weird that you say all that. Also, US used to have high tax rates at the top, his views are fairly tame (historically talking). Not that his tax proposals are necessarily good in this world where every country has lowered taxes and easy movement of capital to tax havens, but they are not that anomalous. Isolationism is relatively non aligned (you'll see libertarians proposing the same, for example); if elected he'll see the reality of how US is doomed to fight in the foreseeable future, he is not a warmonger at least. He is center left, it's just far left in a country like US that has shifted so much to the right since Reagan. It's fairly relative. He seems like Lyndon B. Johnson or Roosevelt when it comes to expand welfare, even if he says he is a democratic socialist... I know what's far left, I live in South America. He is not trying to nationalize industries, nor asking price and currency controls, he is copypasting other countries' stuff. His numbers need some work, but it's not fantasy land. And mocking people for wanting free stuff misses the point. They know it's tax financed and they think it's a good investment (and I can't disagree about free college and universal healthcare, they have a lot of empirical evidence that they work). Add a Forsaken Masters questline https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 Last edited by NeroNoah on Feb 9, 2016, 10:24:16 PM
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he's not 90% he's just 75%.
I dont have a problem with "free" college, I have a problem with his math and how he wants to pay for it. I also really dislike candidates who make promises like that. Its very easy to make absurdly good promises, not so easy to implement them (and even harder to make it true without racking up debt). The rich in the US already pay a far high amount (and yeah, I know historically they paid even more in the past than what hes proposing), I dont think they would take the raise he's proposing that well, I also think that we live in a different age, a more globalized age, and that he risks upseting the richest to the point where to some it might be more economically feasible to move assets. That to me is like his views on russia, doubling down on embargo, coupled with his wanting of removing army presence outside... seems to me he would be playing a very dangerous game. " sometimes I have the feeling they dont. or that they dont give a shit about any of the possible repercussions as long as they are not the ones DIRECTLY affected. Oblivious Last edited by Disrupted on Feb 9, 2016, 10:51:41 PM
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The Donald and The Bern are killing it.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" That's like...your impression. At least reddit shows something different (people discussing about how taxes would go up for them but they'd pay less than with private insurances, in theory). Again, don't mock people because "fruh stuff" because it won't change anyones mind. It's a favourite punchbag of the right, but it doesn't show any respect for the other side, just bias. You are right to question numbers, though. People seem divided about how expensive would those proposals be, so I'd wait a little before judging. It will be reworked or rejected if it goes to vote (after all, Democrats are not suicidal). Add a Forsaken Masters questline https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 Last edited by NeroNoah on Feb 9, 2016, 11:12:40 PM
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" People like free stuff on both sides. and I dont think the ones im thinking of even engage in political discussion (though bernie supporters are extremely vocal, to a point that it can get annoying - as an aside, find it pretty funny that they were banned from tinder due to campaign spam) . I dont mean to change the minds of those, what Im certain is that there's an easy target audience that seeks quick gratification. and I dont think that audience deserves respect. If i had to oversimplify it: Id say there are 3 voters: the politically involved voter (investigates a lot, follows speeches etc), the voter who cares to check what are the proposals that directly affect them but not the rest, and the GIBSMEDAT+hearsay+judge candidate by appearance voter. I find the last cast to be undeserving of respect and I find it pretty sad that they are not as small as they should idealistically be. also reddit is literally shit for political discussion, several times I've seen screencaps of people getting banned from x candidate masturbation subbredit because they said something others dont like (even when backed up by facts, on both spectrums). too much circlejerking for my taste. Now a question since I got to find what the Donalds' proposals on taxes are. Just out of curiosity as Im not very involved in politics (wouldnt know bernies proposals if a guy didnt send me some feelthebern link or whatever. as a side note - an intrusive popup saying FOLLOW BERNIE SANDERS on a website dedicated to follow bernie sanders is really off-putting and redundant), could anyone answer me (if they know) what are his proposals to make up for the tax cuts he wants to implement? Oblivious Last edited by Disrupted on Feb 9, 2016, 11:53:24 PM
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" r/politics is shit (it's a Sanders circlejerk right now, so it's biased), for sure, but it's not the only place to search stuff (neutral politics and political discussion come to mind). Also, even there people don't seem to think that simple about the free stuff (but they are simple about almost anything else). About Trump, I wouldn't expect anything detailed about cuts. He is a magical thinker. He promised to raise taxes on the rich and then he went with cuts anyway. This election cycle is like watching sports, US elections are quality entertainment, XD Add a Forsaken Masters questline
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Some interesting thoughts here:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/2/9/with-trump-and-sanders-european-style-politics-reaches-america.html ([...]Sanders appears to be a more distinctly American type, a veteran of civil rights marches and the 1960's student movement. But his platform and ideology would be right at home among the moderate social democrats of Scandinavia. His calls for progressive taxation, a stronger labor movement, and an expansive public health care system are already commonplace to the point of banality in Sweden and Denmark — to say nothing of Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and other strong Western European states.[...]) http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2016/2/the-danger-of-gops-anti-immigrant-rhetoric.html http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/12/trump-is-a-far-right-populist-not-a-fascist.html http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2016/2/moneyed-interests-are-blocking-us-action-on-climate-change1.html Last edited by Schmodderhengst on Feb 10, 2016, 1:58:12 AM
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" Now, I'm not politically aligned with Sanders, but this post really made me cringe. On the one hand you claim that his supporters are "ignorant, uninformed,etc..", while at the same time you admit to not being "very involved in politics" either. Now that's just blatant hypocrisy. #1 Victim of Murphy's Law.
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" it's no contradiction, he just said that others had absolutely no idea about politics while he's got some background in it but not too much. try to attack the arguments, not the person. age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
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