I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Content BEING a currency makes little sense.

There are currency sinks without using content, crafting gear and jewels themselves can be a sufficient currency sink. The fact content requires such a huge currency investment just makes crafting less of a sink, not because crafting isn't a good sink, but because content demands the currency and crafting doesn't get it.

As for MF flipping low level content to gather orbs to attempt to roll, run and sustain high content, too fucking right I don't want to. #revelation.

so lets recap

GGG outright says maps should be a currency sink.
GGG provides you with a way to generate currency to run maps, by killing mobs, and unrelated to maps

what is the problem here really ? the problem is, once again, you just say 'I dont wanna' and 'no.

just like people simply 'don't wanna' grind low level maps and then complain about map sustainability.

just like people say 'bu bu my college diploma I dont want to work for minimum wage'. well fine, but if you aint getting paid, your diploma aint worth shit. at some point you will go and work for minimum wage because you want to eat something

le'ts point to the real problem here.
once again, you have the means, but you want to dictate your rules instead of playing by the rules.

Absolutely.

Totally because I don't want to, that's not anything I'm denying or trying to hide. Nor is it any revelation you uncovered.


I didn't flip mundane goblins that couldn't fight back in D3 when 99.9% of the population accepted it, jumped on it and did nothing else but it. Reason? Because it was bad game play.

There is a slight difference: While I do have to eat, its a fundamental law of nature if I do not want to die, I do not have to play this game. I can just leave if I want to and find another hobby.

Life in itself is not designed to be fun, but games kind of should be, that is why they are games. And MF-running Dried Lake to generate currency to actually play the game, is kind of not fun at all. At least not to me.

@grepman, do remember you're talking to a guy with a seemingly super-human ability to grind. to farm. to no-life like the person who invented the term "no-life" never dared imagine.
simply put, Anuhart has pretty much done everything there is to do in this game, a dozen times over.
and I'm a fan of his almost as much as he genuinely scares the shit out of me.

so please don't talk "College Diploma", to a Professor who earned that degree in the hardest way possible.

going back on topic: maps are torture currently. they are the Open Beta RNG nightmare all over again.
and when you couple an absurd currency sink with an absurd amount of RNG responsible for both sinks and currencies - you get some of the finest quality rage-quit material.

"

grepman wrote:

GGG outright says maps should be a currency sink.

Even if this is true, does it mean that it's a good thing? No. Is it fun? Not particularly.

Honestly, I think this is a large part of the problems with mapping in 2.0 - the sinking of currencies. In 1.3, it was quite sustainable to run magic maps without too much currency invested in them. And you would still get some map drops so you could continue play. On top of that you'd find loot while mapping, some additional currency and so on. It felt rewarding.

Now, in 2.0, it's the complete opposite. Sure we still find loot in maps, but the cost of actually running the map is typically much higher then what you get out of it. So, it's not rewarding anymore. We've achieved what you and others describe as a currency sink. On top of that, not enough maps are dropping so not only are we bleeding currency, we get thrown down the map ladder repeatedly.

It is entirely possible that this is intentional design by GGG, and it might be working as intended by all means. But the fact is that as of the Awakening, mapping in PoE is no longer rewarding, but punishing.

You can argue about elite map rolling skills and trading proficiency all day long, but the fact remains that this is a pretty major shift in design. And I think it's a bad design. It's not enjoyable, it feels like a chore, and it forces economy on players who may have no desire to participate in it.

Indeed, playing self-found and not trade is wildly inefficient compared to the alternative, that's never been a question. But it is a self-imposed challenge, a choice. This has worked well in the past, when there was actual rewarding gameplay available. But, with this apparently new direction where the end game is supposed to be punishing it is no longer possible to participate without resorting to low-level farming to amass currency to pour into maps. For all we know this may be intentional design, a way to enforce the pyramid scheme. You either play according to the design, or you don't.

Personally, I think it would be a good idea for GGG to spend some time clarifying what their design intentions actually are. There is so much guesswork and quotes flying around from times past. It's hard to understand what the actual philosophy is.

As things are now, it feels like treading water and occasionally being swept over by a wave. The Skinner box feels empty. That is a very dangerous place to be for a game.

"

johnKeys wrote:

no-life

I'll tell you how today's no-life session went.

Log in.
Check vendors on 93 Mara who dinged yesterday.
Reset (not run, other than Zana) master dailies.
Grab a lvl 75 (my highest) map from stash.
Add 4 chisels.
Alch fracture.
Chaos fracture.
Chaos no fracture, \o/.
Have no Vaal orbs.
Put in map machine.
Port out to sell after 1/4 of the map.
Crash to log in screen on trying to enter "An unexpected disconnect has occurred".
Try to re-enter map, crash to log in screen "An unexpected disconnect has occurred".
Try to re-enter map, crash to log in screen "An unexpected disconnect has occurred".
Exit game.


Log in a few hours later, convert all my jewellers to fuses and spam all the fuses I have through a Whispering Ice. Because possibly having a 6 Link Whispering Ice seemed like fun, a reason to log in.

Exited game.

I'll struggle to find a reason to even start the client tomorrow.

I'm sure what I'm about to say has already been said but the essential summary is here:

Maps above 78 are pretty much sustainable if you chisel, chaos for pack size rolls, decent quant, vaal sometimes depending on pool and put in frags. I almost completely agree with Crackmonster's OP but ehhh.... can I really be fucking assed spamming trade 1-10 for chisels that are seemingly rarer than mirrors? You can honestly build the fattest 78+ pool in the game pretty reliably if you roll maps properly. And sometimes it takes upwards of 20c just to get the right rolls.

The higher ones above that are suitably gated to be honest, a 82 at level 99 with Ambush is like 1% xp which is fairly absurd, more than 3x old 78 maps with dom.

It's really 50% mapping, 50% trade-spamming. This is actually the most time-effective way to do it since low map MFing doesn't actually gain xp and returns less rolling currency per hour then farming trade chat. The best bit is when you don't have chisels you can't actually play and put in maps since you're not gunna have maps at the end of it when you do.

And if you're not a streamer who gets frags, vaals, chisels PMed to them, you're in for a whole load of cancer.

Pretty sad story. I feel your pain. :(

"

Char1983 wrote:

Life in itself is not designed to be fun, but games kind of should be, that is why they are games.

that is kinda faulty logic, because you are going from your subjective opinion, and then generalizing, assuming it true for everyone from your particular view.

not to go on a tangent here and no offense, but this kind of thinking is why we have carebear ass games nowadays.

"

grepman wrote:

"

Char1983 wrote:

Life in itself is not designed to be fun, but games kind of should be, that is why they are games.

that is kinda faulty logic, because you are going from your subjective opinion, and then generalizing, assuming it true for everyone from your particular view.

not to go on a tangent here and no offense, but this kind of thinking is why we have carebear ass games nowadays.

Sure it should be hard, but actually your idea of farming low maps is completely unviable since I might get what 10 chisels in an hour?

The actual optimal strategy to farm trade chat, I mean I'm all for trading (kappa) but wow spamming trade 1-10 takes the life out of me.