I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

"

Char1983 wrote:

The problem is: It is not working.

For Shavronne's Wrappings, if you desire them, or any other item in the game, you make progress. Every day when you log out, you have a bit more currency than before. Even if nothing useful drops, you are stacking lower orbs like Alterations and such. Eventually, you can buy what you desired. If I wanted to make a character that requires a Shavs, and the only way to get it would be that it drops to me, I would probably not play.

But the map system is even worse than hoping for a Shavs to drop. While if you wait for the Shavs to drop, you are at least not making steps backwards, that is exactly what happens with the map system. You log in with 10 77 maps and log out with 5. That sucks, it is frustrating and makes you not even try any more.

At least, I no longer try. I wait for a bit and see if they fix the map system in some way, and if not, do something else - either within PoE, or outside of it.

So you would rather have a deterministic mapping system that did not grant experience to your characters but only higher item level loot?

Because those maps didn't just "vaporize", your character consumed them and gained experience in return.
(if done correctly)

I could see such a deterministic model working if it didn't effect player experience. you think it would be better overall though?

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

So you would rather have a deterministic mapping system that did not grant experience to your characters but only higher item level loot?

Yes, MUCH rather. Question is only, where would you level to get to the point where you can actually run that map system.

I would not mind BTW if the loot there was not any better than say in a 78 map.

"

Boem wrote:

I could see such a deterministic model working if it didn't effect player experience. you think it would be better overall though?

I think ideal would be a semi-deterministic semi-random model where you can make progress if and only if your character is strong enough, that gives both experience and loot, and where it is still not easy to level to lvl 100 would be ideal. I have presented such a possible system here before, though I am aware that it will likely not come in the way I presented it. The feedback was rather... muted.

And yes, I think that would be better overall.

"

Emphasy wrote:

And the thing is... I don't want harder maps to level faster. I want harder maps to challange me. And a higher level is currently the greatest increase in difficulty.

I absolutely want harder maps to be able to level faster. I'm not ashamed at this whatsoever. If I can complete a challenge I should be rewarded. It's fun.

I'm not going to engage in pretending that it's somehow "noble" to want to be challenged with no payout. I do want to be challenged, but I want the rewards that come with that challenge.

If GGG increased map drop rates so that 78ish was sustainable and 79+ was bonus, rare content, then yes - leveling would be easier. Oh no. First off, it would only be easier for people who couldn't already afford to chain 78+ maps (wealthy players already do this). Second, the difficulty of the content would be the limiting factor for most players. Casuals can't run 79+ maps not just because of rarity, but because they don't have the builds and gear to be able to do so - they would die, and wouldn't be able to level "easily." If we have the builds and gear, we should be able to run the content.

In this scenario, iiq/iir reverts to what it was supposed to be in the first place: a way to get better drops, including currency, rather than sustain mid-tier maps. Challenging ourselves with tough mods and sinking currency into maps is a way to farm for drops, rather than a mandatory tax most players can't afford (I'm seeing a lot of confused posters wondering why others aren't casually tossing 10s of chaos and a vaal into each map).

Now, if there are builds that can run the highest tier maps with tough mods easily without much investment, that is a balance problem and GGG should focus on fixing it rather than screwing all the rest of us with the band-aid of gating content behind droprates.

/endrant

"

Boem wrote:

"

roetetoet wrote:

29 pages and not 1 GGG response on a concern that makes players stop playing as they do not have fun.

Players that do not play are lost business, i find this very strange or is it because Chris is on holiday :)

It's worth contemplating that GGG has actually achieved there desired goal and that mapping was in fact to easy in previous game states.

In a sense GGG failed the community in the last game states because they could not deliver
"the hardcore end-game experience" which they wanted to.

People are conditioned with these last game states in mind, so a desperate out-cry seems a reasonable response. A response that can be ignored though.

Peace,

-Boem-

:/

I find a game state where I can access the end game content to be a fuckton more hardcore than one where I'm locked out of it unless I excel at shopping and utilise a 6 man party and the huge added safety that comes with it.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

:/

I find a game state where I can access the end game content to be a fuckton more hardcore than one where I'm locked out of it unless I excel at shopping and utilise a 6 man party and the huge added safety that comes with it.

Your a special snowflake, so deal with it?

And i don't mean that in a bad way, just as a state of fact. It should be "quite" obvious to you GGG isn't targeting you as their audience.

Your as much locked out of it like every other person playing PoE, barring your self-put limitations.
Which i assume are preference and come with a price, like has been the case, forever?

That doesn't mean my point holds no merit or that i personally enjoy that argument. It is what it is and it will change again in the future if so desired. In the mean-time we continue rolling, at least i will.

I did not consider chaining courtyards and palaces all day long "hardcore". And i did those mostly melee and 120%+, once a build attained face-roll status it was done and over. I like that new tiers are presented now that push beyond that. Not that i will see one soon, but that doesn't bother me. If i get one i will be happy, if not, i will also be happy.

It's a game after all.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

:/

I find a game state where I can access the end game content to be a fuckton more hardcore than one where I'm locked out of it unless I excel at shopping and utilise a 6 man party and the huge added safety that comes with it.

Your a special snowflake, so deal with it?

And i don't mean that in a bad way, just as a state of fact. It should be "quite" obvious to you GGG isn't targeting you as their audience.

Your as much locked out of it like every other person playing PoE, barring your self-put limitations.
Which i assume are preference and come with a price, like has been the case, forever?

That doesn't mean my point holds no merit or that i personally enjoy that argument. It is what it is and it will change again in the future if so desired. In the mean-time we continue rolling, at least i will.

I did not consider chaining courtyards and palaces all day long "hardcore". And i did those mostly melee and 120%+, once a build attained face-roll status it was done and over. I like that new tiers are presented now that push beyond that. Not that i will see one soon, but that doesn't bother me. If i get one i will be happy, if not, i will also be happy.

It's a game after all.

Peace,

-Boem-

I have no issues with being required to beat hard maps in order to advance, it's the way one has to produce those hard maps that's the problem. That being, by investing several times more currency than will drop, ergo.. currency that several other people find.

Now, if the maps actually dropped the currency.

It isn't and never has been about 'hardcore game', about getting to 100, about getting bored and leaving, or any of the other BS excuses GGG come out with. It is and always has been about how maps fit into the precious economy and whether anyone but the best shoppers are progressing.

I will never understand how an aRPG developer can be so obsessed with economy at such a cost to actual aRPG design.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

I have no issues with being required to beat hard maps in order to advance, it's the way one has to produce those hard maps that's the problem. That being, by investing several times more currency than will drop, ergo.. currency that several other people find.

Now, if the maps actually dropped the currency.

It isn't and never has been about 'hardcore game', about getting to 100, about getting bored and leaving, or any of the other BS excuses GGG come out with. It is and always has been about how maps fit into the precious economy and whether anyone but the best shoppers are progressing.

I will never understand how an aRPG developer can be so obsessed with economy at such a cost to actual aRPG design.

In reality, all i needed to sustain maps in the one-week solo self-found was chisels all other currency dropped in abundance.

So i went to sins lvl 2 in normal and farmed for my hammers for every 77+ map i found.

And this was pre-awakening.

Loot drops are higher and you don't need targeted rolls anymore most of the time, actually reducing the cost for mapping.

And like i said, the game is a multiplayer online experience, it is not targeted at a self-found audience, so naturally balance overall will take this aspect into consideration.

And the economy is not what is prohibiting your vision of PoE at all. It's the ladder and the competitive side that's preventing that.

Without ladders, competition falls, without competition, fun is the main drive behind the community so prices become irrelevant as long as fun is achieved.

This is easily demonstrated by people "not giving a fuck" and giving away all of there priced gear at the end of a ladder/league. The competition has ended, so items are no longer "valued".

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : i would very much like to play your vision of PoE, but i deal with the cards given.

i played solo SF for a year and a half when i entered PoE, but since i play league's only and i wanted to test out builds i decided eventually i would have to trade to realize some of my more freakish concepts.

"

Boem wrote:

In reality, all i needed to sustain maps in the one-week solo self-found was chisels all other currency dropped in abundance.

So i went to sins lvl 2 in normal and farmed for my hammers for every 77+ map i found.

And this was pre-awakening.

[Removed by Support]

Pre-awakening you didnt have to do much to sustain high level maps so bringing that up has absolutely no relevance.

This is how i fare in awakening:
I chained 100-150 quantity maps with 20-40% packsize (most of them vaaled, some of them with onslaught mod) over and over until i reached lvl 91... in fucking lvl 75 maps.

The highest map i have seen is lvl 79.
90% of my runs are 75 maps with the occasional 76 map and the ultra rare 77 map.

From my experience, bosses almost never drop any maps, and if they do, they certainly dont drop any +1 or +2 maps, so the design philosophy behind the map drop reduction change through removal of +2 drops with the intention of forcing players to kill the boss, in order to progress, is a flat out lie.

Playerbase in warbands is at an alltime low as far as i can see and it keeps declining.
The game is literally dying before our eyes and i attribute that largely to the terrible changes introduced in the awakening with the map changes being at the forefront.

Maybe its an effort to reduce server load?

I have seen +2 drops from bosses, but they are not exactly common. Killing bosses is mostly a disappointment.

Also, I still wonder if GGG will ever answer or at least comment on our questions and concerns. Seeing that they edited the post above this one, it is clear that someone at least reads them.

I still have the hope that they will do something about the map drops. Chris is coming back from vacations when...? Next week?

Big surprise, people are terrible at managing resources and come to the forums as though it's anyone's problem but their own.

Funny thing is, map prices are hilariously cheap right now. You can't manage to get into 75+ maps, but they cost peanuts. Funny how the market represents an enormous population compared to the forums, but hey "I cant find da fugkin mepz" is a pretty good argument too.