[Deleted]

Aight folks, I gots a question.

I currently got almost the whole build together, I don't have a volls yet, which is what im farming towards, Im not sure if I should just get a belly of the beast instead of the kingsguard for now, feels like im a tad bit squishy for now ( don't have proper aurasetups, or flasks )

Any critique / help would be appreciated.

You're squishy because you aren't running Grace which gives you a ton of physical damage reduction (paired with Iron Reflexes).
Keep your Kingsguard. A 5L Kingsguard > 6L Belly of the Beast. You need to color your 5L kingsguard RRRGG, though. Drop the Fortify and add a Faster Attacks. This is only assuming you have a Voll's. Since you don't, I would recommend using a 5L Lightning Coil instead of a Belly of the Beast. You need more physical reduction, not more life.

PS: It looks like you will need way more INT on gear to use Mjolner

"

irkthul wrote:

Aight folks, I gots a question.

I currently got almost the whole build together, I don't have a volls yet, which is what im farming towards, Im not sure if I should just get a belly of the beast instead of the kingsguard for now, feels like im a tad bit squishy for now ( don't have proper aurasetups, or flasks )

Any critique / help would be appreciated.

Spoiler

you need volls first, without volls, kingsguard EC effect will be zero and you have no form of leech.

A temporary solution would be coil or daresso, or any high armor 5L u have in stash. In the meantime, u will need to sustain with more life potions.

Yeah after extensive fiddling as im just plowing through 74maps to keep up with the 100% experience gained, I just slapped on a Life Leech into the mjöllner instead of an Iron Will, and its keeping me up pretty well, i'm def just gonna hit up a decent 5linked chest for the meanwhile I steadily hammer away at foes and farm, cheers for the advice folks!

Here's what the setup looks like!



I would say it works fine without the volls, and I can definately see that its a massive part of the dps, but then again doing this lets me play with the build early on as I accumulate wealth!

Looks great to me! Safe farming!

So I've managed to lvl RT Mjolner to 88 and bough myself lvl 21 puritys. Also I've finished my crit version. Both builds were ready for another comparision. I've once again recorded all bossing videos @60 fps and rewatched in slow motion for analysis. But this time I wont upload them - time consuming and I've spent enough time allready with this comparision.

RT key stats:



Crit key stats:


Both builds were using:



With the gem setups included. Also both builds were using Cyclone - Blood Magic - Faster Attacks - Fortify as a secound attack for clearing packs. Both were also using CWDT - Immortal Call - Warlords Mark - Increased AOE.

The RT was also using:


With aura setup as included.

While crit was using:

With aura setup Purity of Fire - Purity of light - Grace - Enlightment in gloves.


Passive tree used by RT:

Bandits: life, attack speed, endu charge


Passive tree used by Crit:

Bandits: life, passive point, endu charge


Comparision results:



Conclusion:

I've also done dozens of 76-79 maps with both builds and both are great but Crit is just better for me. RT will take down bosses quicker but with less survivability. It looses because of flask not being allways ready, lower HP pool and no life regen (my crit version has almost 300 life regen / s) making it more potent to one shotting and degen effects like chaos dmg and corupting blood. It forces you to react quickly on degen effects. When on a 6link with Fortify this might be a close call between the two but still Crit has those flasks, more life and life regen. More than that RT is SLOWER when mapping (less movement speed, less AOE). Crit version is also cheaper (lvl 21 puritys are not required, saving you 12-14 ex) and looks better out of the box (Devotos vs Alphas). Default look of Alphas is terrible with Kingsguard. So... it was an intresting experiment that helped me to decide which version to use. And I'm declaring Crit version worthy of wearing a Mjolner!

I'm sorry, but there is so much wrong with your results. Similar to your last testing, you didn't have the RT build fully developed, which is what I pointed out last time. I even explicitly said that it scales better than Crit end game and you didn't even leveling it up to 90. I checked out your tree and you didn't pick up Soul of Steel. Why is this crucial? Well in your conclusion you claim that RT is has less survivability than Crit: You didn't pick up Soul of Steel. I don't know how or why your physical damage reduction on your RT variant is so low unflasked, but mine is 69% (you can even do the math for that if you wish). Soul of Steel is more important than you think and you completely took it out of the equation.

Now, you claim that Crit has more survivability. Take a look at your own stats. 87/86/79 resistance on RT vs 84/83/79 on Crit. Now when you flask yes you end up with the same amount of resistances. If you had gone up to level 90, then your phys reduc is also better than Crit. Now the only statistic I can see that convinces you that crit is tankier is the life. You didn't get Juggernaut either on your RT which would give more life.

I'd rather not go 1 by 1 and dissect your stats for your RT build, but I guess I am forced to since it's not up to par and it greatly affected your results.

Lv 88: Already we are off to an awful start. One of the most essential rules in testing two different subjects is that they have an equal start. I checked your skill tree and your crit says "12 points left" and your RT says "15 points left". It looks to me like they are actually 3 levels off which is a huge factor in comparing builds. Seems to me like the crit build cheated a bit. It's not a valid test unless both builds are the same level.

4367 life: Your life is actually up to par, nothing out of place here.

31% movement speed: I have 36%, maybe your boots just aren't perfect. Only reason I bring this is up is because your crit boots seem to have a perfect 30%. The only reason I believe this is because on my old crit, I also got 48% total movement speed with 30% boots. This must mean that your RT build doesnt have 30% boots whereas your Crit build does. Just another unfair disadvantage I'd like to point out. Though, I could be wrong and I'd really like you to post your gear so I can see all the different stats that you used to compile your results (life, movespeed, attack speed, etc).

4.98 molten strike: Ehhhhhhh it's close and I'll let it slide because I think that the reason you don't have 5.5 APS is your jewels (not having double attack speed rolls). Maybe you could post your jewels to confirm this.

4 endurance and power charges: This is huge. You have 4/4 charges while I have 5/5 charges and let me tell you, this greatly increases mapping (not bossing). This helps mapping because I almost have 5/5 charges when killing packs and it makes mapping much faster. You say RT is slower at mapping and I 100% believe you. For your 4/4 charges, I am in 100% compliance. Try using 5/5 charges next time. This is just another example of why having maximum end game gear (like I said before) sways the results greatly. If you had end game gear on both Crit and RT, RT easily comes out on top. Intuitive Leap: You didn't get it and it would a) save 2 nodes for you and b) allow you to get another charge. Another max end game gear you don't have is a +1 endurance charge belt. This gets you to 5/5. So before you do your next test (if you plan to do one again). Please please please please just get literally maximum gear before doing anything. It's kinda of exhausting having to call out every little thing that you don't do to even the playing field. This goes back to standard testing rules: Both builds need to have maximum end game gear and both builds should be the same level. This is the only way to test the full potential of both builds and, like I've said 40 times already, is why the RT build surpasses the crit build.

10% increased AOE: I honestly don't care much about this stat. It doesn't change much when mapping. 110% AOE vs 126% AOE won't yield a large map speed difference.

Your resistances look fine, but I am forced to bring up the fact that your saffell's is not legacy (AGAIN ANOTHER MAX END GAME GEAR THINGAMAGIG). Why does this matter? In your atziri test results, you die with 4300 life and 97% fire resistance. I can tank the flameblasts with 4400 life and 98% resistance. I posted a video of my friend who did a deathless atziri with the RT build and I'm pretty sure he tanked it too. And he was even using a Ranger. How is this possible? 1) He's level 90 (unlike you) and 2) He has max end game gear (unlike you). I'm trying to point out all the examples of why you can't test two builds unless you have max end game gear. You're not getting the full potential of either and this is where RT shines.

59% phys: I think I've already gone over this: Get Soul of Steel and you should have close to 70% phys reduc without flasks: RT is tankier.

Just because I want to stress this fact for the 130th time: Max end game gear is CRUCIAL in determining which build is better at its full potential. If you had a 6L Kingsguard on both your crit and your RT build, then Fortify would allow yo to tank pretty much anything (including atziri's flameblasts). I noticed that another one of your major factors in the conclusion was the fact that the crit build could tank the flameblasts and RT could not. If you simply had a 6L kingsguard on both builds, then both the crit build and the RT build can tank her. I'd give the Atziri fight a win to RT (simply because I've tried both with actual max end game gear and RT dies less and kills faster for me).

This brings me to your comparison results:

Round 1: I agree with you, crit clears faster; 1 point to crit. Crit does not proc more, but it clears faster. This is because of the movement speed increase, not the AOE increase. If you want show me wrong, then please post your video.
1:0

Round 2: Another example of why having end game gear (6L Kingsguard and legacy saffells) would sway the results. If you had this, then both builds would have done this test deathless, which brings it down to kill speed: RT is faster; 1 point to RT
1:1

Round 3: I agree; 1 point to RT
1:2

Round 4: Your stats show that RT surpasses Crit for this test (even on not max end game) but you refuse to give the win to RT. This means I have to dissect your explanation for this. "RT has the ability to take them out a little bit quicker and easier but if something goes wrong crit version can pull this out easier due to the flask charges and 300 life regen /s. I'll call it a draw." You claim that it's a draw because of flask charges and 300 life regen.
1) Lets do some math. It takes 20 seconds (according to you) to kill trio with the RT build. You have 5 flasks. Each flask goes for 4 seconds. 5x4 = 20seconds. You don't need to have unlimited flasks for the trio. I know that people like to run different flasks and most of us use life flasks. Okay, then all we need to do to get our flasks back is just cyclone the ads a couple times and BAM, full flasks. GGG wouldn't have put ads in the Trio without a reason. The whole purpose of them is to refill flasks.
2) Life regen doesnt matter for this build because of double life leech. What's the point of having double life leech engine if you're relying on life regen? If you're low life, then cyclone into the ads and get instant 100% life. You don't need to rely on life regen. If you are low on HP, heres a solution: Just use 1 life flask. The end.
Again, it comes down to clear speed since flasks and life regen are negligible and RT kills faster so; 1 point to RT
1:3

Round 5: I believe I already went over this somewhere up there ^. With max end gear, you can tank everything and you don't die with either build. It comes down to kill speed again; 1 point to RT
1:4

RT: 4 points, Crit:1 point

I have max end gear and I've done atziri deathless many times, tanked her spells, etc. and I'm telling you, RT comes out on top. If you want to see for yourself then look at the deathless atziri video my friend did on a lv 90 ranger. It's somewhere in the comments section.

I wouldnt have changed the build guide to from crit to RT if I didn't test a ton myself and am 100% sure that RT is better. I truly believe that RT comes out on top. If you want to falsify something I said, please show your videos and gear first.

Yes RT was 2 points off (lvl 88 vs 90, not 3 points as u suggested because you are forced with RT to take all bandits quest rewards while on crit u're not). I could took intuitive leap and +1 charge item on both builds saving points - no disadvantage here. This 2 points that were off might increase phys reduction from 59 to maybe ~65-68 unflasked on a RT, but this is irrelevant - flasked is what it matters because you will tank hard stuff flasked. If you read carefully RT had more phys reduction when flasked because I used better granit on it to compensate for those 2 armour points off. Little to no disadvantage here. So, even when 2 points off from my perspective both builds had same starting point, both being practically finished. (btw you can check the other gear that both were using in my previous comparision post).

Boots were 25% movement speed on both. No disadvantage here. Devotos just wins this vs Alphas (providing also much needed chaos resitance on top of movement speed and attack speed). I could min/max jewels on both but for what? Jewels were far from bis and this was fair. For a better picture I could compare the two without any jewels in sockets. Once again - can't see any disadvantage here.

I can agree that with fortify on a 6link things might became closer when tanking bosses (and I wrote this) but both builds didnt have fortify on a 6link and once again - that was fair.

The RT just needs best gear to be competitive with Crit which is from my perspecitve another point won by crit - it is cheaper with same or better results (no need for lvl 21 puritys, no need for gg jevels, no need for t1 life on every gear slot, no need for legacy Saffells etc.).

Crit has more life, "allways ready" flasks and life regen. It is just a pure advantage that is hard to miss no matter what.

Now dont get me wrong - I can see your point, when money isnt a problem RT might (and I believe you it will) came on top of crit with best gear/jevels and higher lvl. And from this point of view, when considering things, you know, in a cosmic scale, RT might be a better build. But when u take everything into consideration (currency and time involved) crit is a better build - giving you more for less investment. And I dont have time and currency to invest further so I choose what works better for my. Thats just mine point of view. Cheers!

Other than the fact that you disregarded about half my points in my previous message, I'll do my best to respond to most of yours:

"This 2 points that were off might increase phys reduction from 59 to maybe ~65-68 unflasked on a RT, but this is irrelevant - flasked is what it matters because you will tank hard stuff flasked"
- You only get 72% flasked while as my RT build gets the capped 90% with flask. Like you said, it only matters when you flask and 90% vs 72% is an incredibly large difference. I take only 35.7% the physical damage that you take when we both flask. Moral: It matters.

"Devotos just wins this vs Alphas (providing also much needed chaos resitance on top of movement speed and attack speed)"
- Chaos resistance isn't really needed. At least not for me. And that 25% chaos res? Really? You're gonna bring that minuscule amount of resistance into this comparison? My belt has more than that. You do get more movement speed for mapping which helps increases your clears by 10% or whatever the number was. And lastly. Attack speed. Ah yes you get more attack speed with devotos, but, oh wait? Devotos attack speed is only to CATCH UP on attack speed compared to the RT build. In the long run RT has way more attack speed than the crit (even when crit uses Devotos).

"I can agree that with fortify on a 6link things might became closer when tanking bosses (and I wrote this) but both builds didnt have fortify on a 6link and once again - that was fair."
- Maybe you can't comprehend what I said before or maybe you just chose to ignore this to make your test more valid? Anyways, either way, I'm going to copy and paste what I said before so that hopefully it makes sense to you: "If you simply had a 6L kingsguard on both builds, then both the crit build and the RT build can tank her." The point I just made is that both builds can tank atziri, whereas you had just claimed that Crit can tank and RT cannot. You say "that was fair" but no, you're wrong. It's not fair that you don't use a 6L kingsguard for both tests and claim Crit can tank. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this Rico: You're not testing the full potential of both builds, because when you do, you will see RT comes on top.

I honestly don't think you understood that last paragraph so I'm going to say it again:
5L KG + Crit = can tank
5L KG + RT = can't tank
6L KG + Crit = can tank
6L KG + RT = can tank

So as you see, when you add the full max end game gear (6L KG) to both builds, the crit build gains nothing and simply can tank just like before, but the RT gains a lot more and gains the ability to tank. Back to your moral standards: This is fair. The test you did before: Not fair. You have to test the full potential of both builds to see which is truly better.

"The RT just needs best gear to be competitive with Crit which is from my perspecitve another point won by crit"
I see what you are saying here, and I do agree with you. On the short end, crit gets better quicker whereas RT gets better slower. But then on the long end, Crit drops off at the end and RT continues farther. Guess where Crit drops off? Level 90. And when you get down to it, most mjolner players plan to level past Lv 90.
It's basic scaling, Rico. The crit variant scales like a function y=x (linear) whereas the RT variant scales like y=x^2 (quadratic)and the point (1,1) = level 90.
Go plug both of those into your graphing calculator and take a look. Of course this is all arbitrary, but on a general sense, this is what I mean when I say that the RT scales better in the end game. All the way from x=0 to x=1, the Crit variant is better, but one you hit x=1 (level 90), you can see what I mean when the RT variant surpasses the crit. This is what I'm trying to say and you seem to not understand that when you say "I can agree that with fortify on a 6link things might became closer when tanking bosses (and I wrote this) but both builds didnt have fortify on a 6link and once again - that was fair."
Don't test two builds without the full potential. But, since a lot of players want to know:

Yes, the crit variant gets better faster, but if you a hardcore down to earth Mjolner player and want the best build for Lv 90+, then use the RT variant.

"Now dont get me wrong - I can see your point, when money isnt a problem RT might (and I believe you it will) came on top of crit with best gear/jevels and higher lvl. And from this point of view, when considering things, you know, in a cosmic scale, RT might be a better build"

RT isn't just "might". RT is better in the end game. I've tested it. I've seen it. My screenshots are up. Deathless atziri video up.

"But when u take everything into consideration (currency and time involved) crit is a better build - giving you more for less investment."
I am in 100% agreement, if you don't plan to fully invest the crit version might be better. Notice I say "might".

Anyways, you made some valid points earlier, you also made some invalid points. All in all, both builds are good, both builds are different.
It really depends on who is playing this build and how much he/she plans to invest in it.
If you plan to do another test again: Please get full gear and equal levels.

"

Soul of Steel is more important than you think and you completely took it out of the equation.

You didn't get Juggernaut either on your RT which would give more life.

I have 5/5 charges and let me tell you, this greatly increases mapping (not bossing). This helps mapping because I almost have 5/5 charges when killing packs and it makes mapping much faster.

10% increased AOE: I honestly don't care much about this stat. It doesn't change much when mapping. 110% AOE vs 126% AOE won't yield a large map speed difference.

Just to highlight some stuffs here and also post some questions of my own.

1. I am currently lv75 and have taken all aura and 2 jewel nodes. Which other node should i spec into next to give me more survivability? <Soul of steel or Juggernaut?> My character has 2700hp at the moment but survives really poorly on big hits, due to me not having Volls amulet on warbands. I have it waiting on standard. Click for my tree

I would also hope you can provide in which order should i take the following notables to build up my tankines (hopefully for normal atziri fight as well):
-Barbarism
-Bloodless
-Golem's Blood
-Bravery
-Art of the Gladiator

2. 5/5 charges. Word. I've seen alot of mjolner streams and this build consistently produces 5/5 charges more so than crit build. What this proves is that, EC gives phys reduction which sort of mitigates the buffer between the initial hit and the first discharge, and also it gives IC a chance to proc and enables phys immunity. Ele is non-factor due to flasks. I can't comment on atziri as I havent done so, and i've done maps only up to 72 with my 75 character.

3. Just my 2 cents on AOE. I feel AOE is beneficial only if you took both the templar+witch nodes. 1 side of tree is insignificant, which cyclone gives the added mobility for the speed clear you were looking for.

4. Flasks. Currently I have some difficulty with mapping due to my flask mods. I am unsure what suffix to roll to provide more survivability. Below are my flasks, and feel free to comment which I should re-roll immediately.


5. ES. I have so much energy shield, near 700, that I do not know what to do with it. Is there a better use for ES or should we just leave it? Its just a random thought, cuz we get so much Int and it multiplies alot with kingsguard being AR/ES hybrid.