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Hi,
In the situations where you value mobility over durability (doing 75-76s instead of 80+) what gear changes could be done? (without modifying tree). I can only think on using haste. Culler-support build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1617230
Dedicated support build https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1702757 |
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I would still stick with the same gear for both 70 maps and 80 maps. The balance is so strong already.
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I think I've managed to improve your build significantly. I'll risk statement that I've eliminated most of build's major flaws while still maintaining all key advantages (and improving some of them greatly). I'm testing things right now to be 100% sure that everything works as intended. I'm currently on my way from 91 to 92 doing 76-80 maps (more than half way throught at the moment). After that I'll buy few sacrifice sets and redo some tests. But as I've experienced it so far - I can tell you right now - this thing works brilliantly. I'll make a post later in the evening. Stay tuned.
Latest guides: 3.11 Loki's Rainbownuke: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2904155 3.7 CI CoC Discharge: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2605608 3.7 Juggernaut life Mjolner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362 Last edited by RicoKGB#5871 on Sep 16, 2015, 11:21:48 AM
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Sounds awesome! I'm always excited for new breakthroughs that make things better :P
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So... yeah. In our previous discussion you've made some valid points and so did I. So I took yours and mine and combined them together for a list of improvements to make. At first it was looking like mission impossible, but... I've eventually came up with a few ideas to overcome some problems and the result is even better that I expected. Now, I'm open to criticism but before you reply I will strongly suggest that you test yourself the changes I'm about to describe in game.
First short list of improvements following your advice: 1. 5/5 charges. Regreted my merciless Bandid choice and gained Alira's favour for +1 power charge. Failed to corrupt +1 endurance charge on one of my rares but succeed on one of my uniques: It will do at the moment, but my goal here is to get one with more overall life, some resistances and especially - chaos resistance. 2. Leveled up the char to 92 (but 90 is enough If u have Intuitive Leap - which I dont). 3. Crafted myself a good rare jewel: This alone boosted my aps to 5.21. 4. Upgraded boots to 30% movement speed. But I didn't stop there. There were still things with the original build that I didn't like: - Clear speed on maps was dissapointing due to the movement speed and AOE of Discharge - The char was still vulnerable to damage over time effects (aka DoTs) like corrupting blood and chaos damage (especially deadly were poison clouds zombies on a vulnerability 77+ maps) - Flask charge generation was not good enough to sustain my kind of usage ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ So, after staring for some time on a passive tree I came up with the conclusion that there isnt really much to improve. You did really good job with the tree. The only way to improve anything was to change something among gear and gems. So I've came up with a few ideas, implemented them and tested trough a day of gameplay. So, here's what I did (read carefully):
Spoiler
1. Switched out Aplha's Howl for Devoto's Devotion. 2. Dropped Wrath, added lvl 3 Empower to maintain lvl 23 puritys (u can also use corrupted +1 Voidbringers to maintain lvl 23 puritys without Empower and still have room for another 35% aura like purity of cold, but this is expensive). 3. Crafted myself on one of my Flasks "Removes Freeze And Chill On Use" (did that on movement flask because it works best for my this way). Now before I'll continue lets just wrap up what was lost and what was gained this way so far: Lost: - Wrath - Cannot be frozen Gained: + 20% increased movememt speed + 16% increased attack speed + 64 dexterity + 400 armour + 24% chaos resitance + Mercury footprints (naah, just kidding) + Freeze removal on a flask I found that I really dont need "Cannot be frozen". It is good to have but the only situations where I found my self being frozen was when yolo opening strongboxes. Freeze removal on a flask solved that completely. Now, short math behind Wrath vs 16% increased attack speed:
Spoiler
With lvl 22 Wrath and 43% increased effects of auras from tree we get: 0,22 * 1,43 = 31,4% MORE lightning dmg. Now how much of your dmg is lightning? Easy, with equal number of charges and equal dmg increase nodes for both fire and lightning, lightning dmg is exactly 50% of your overall dmg. So Wrath gives you: 0,5 * 0,314 = 15,7% MORE overall dmg. This is now lost. 16% increased attack speed with my gear and items brings my up from 5.21 aps to 5.68 aps (with molten), meaning I'll hit now 9% MORE often (5.68/5.21 = 1,09). With 100% hit chance and legacy Mjolner I'll discharge 9% * 50% = 4,5% MORE often. So actual dmg lost is 15,7% - 4,5% = 11,2%. I'll be doing around 10% less dmg overall, or 90% of dmg that I was doing. Not a big deal right? The build felt better after those changes. But still - It wasnt THERE yet. So here's what I did further:
Spoiler
4. switched Arc for Ball Lightning in Mjolner. This one is a game changer. Arc was there, in the Mjolner, for two things: (1) generate additional power charges; (2) apply shock when possible - 15% chance to shock with non quality one; But really shocks via arc are more like an iceing on a cake. They're good to have but not required. It is all about proc chance - charge generation and discharge frequency. This build can peak up to 20hz Discharge vs single target (with easilly sustainable 10hz). And with any given frequency Baal Lightning WILL proc more often than arc. It can hit same target every 0.2 of a sec of its lifetime. Before it will go out of range it can easilly hit 2-3 times the same target, meaning 2-3 times MORE power charges. Let me tell you this: with Baal Lightning you will be capped on your 5/5 charges vs single targets. And this change alone increases dmg output of the build vs single targets (bosses) immensely. I went down on lvl 76 Malformation Piety from 13 sec kill time to less than 8 sec. Double Vaals were 8 sec as well. 16 sec Trio, 32 sec Atziri... Man, with this thing, this little ball fellow, you'll be ripping through bosses like a chainsaw. With the given aps Balls of lightning will be spawned so often that they'll create almost solid line behind the target. There's no need for Wrath anymore... Let just Pickard tell you this:  With this amount of charges generated per sec vs single target I'm seriously considering dropping the dual leech engine - I'll test that in the near future. For now it stays on to be closer to the original build. But I didn't stop there. 5. Last change that I've made - I've sacrificed one jewel socket and took Aplify for a 16% AOE increase. You were arguing with me that this is irrelevant. I cannot disagre more. Here are the pics of Discharge's range with AOE comming only from 20 quality Discharge (10% increased AOE):
Spoiler
Discharge (10% increased AOE):   Using pixel calculation build in Paint (lol)this is 660-680 px of effective range on a 1920x1080 resolution. Here are the pics of Discharge range with AOE comming from 20 quality Discharge (10% increased AOE) AND 16% increased AOE from tree:
Spoiler
Discharge (26% increased AOE):   This is 780 px of effective range on a 1920x1080 resolution. Let me just tell you that this change helps GREATLY with clear speed on maps. And not only Discharge will benefit from this. Also cyclone will reach further, and Baal Lightning will have greater range for hitting with those little thunders that will generate you lots of charges. Check it yourself: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ball_Lightning All right, cool Rico, but does it work? Hell yeah...
Spoiler
Adjusted RT version stats: 4451 life 0 life regen (Vaal Pact) 68% phys dmg reduction (unflasked) 80% phys dmg reduction (flasked) 87% fire res (unflasked) 79% cold res (unflasked) 86% light res (unflasked) 97% fire res (flasked) 96% light res (flasked) -24% chaos resistance (working on a belt) 100% chance to hit 5.68 molten APS 5/5 charges 56% movement speed increase Passive tree: Gear:
Spoiler
Yes I know, I'm still missing 6l Kingsguard with fortify on a 6link. Practical in-game test result: Adjusted RT Mjolner lvl 73 Strand clear speed: Map cleared in 2:35 <3 monsters left This is on pair with a Crit version now and it IS one of the fastest map clearers. Adjusted RT Mjolner lvl 76 Gorge clear speed: Map cleared in 3:58 with 6 monsters left. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYVAo7Ljuzc Adjusted RT Mjolner vs lvl 76 Malformation Piety: Kill time: less than 8 sec Lowest hp during the fight: 60% Adjusted RT Mjolner vs lvl 76 Dominus: Kill time: 11 sec Lowest hp during the fight: 24% (tanked Dom's Light of Divinity smash - yeah) Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0p2sp_INYI vs Double Vaals (regular Atziri): Kill time: 8 sec Lowest hp during the fight: 58% (took dmg from the beam, rest was like 99% life) vs Trio (regular Atziri): Kill time: 16 sec Lowest hp during the fight: around 50% (was standing in degen not leeching, rest was like 99% life) vs regular Atziri: Kill time: 32 sec Lowest hp during split phase: 58% (didnt use ruby on blasts, rest was like 99%) Lowest hp during the fight: 48% (tanked vaal flameblasts) I've almost pulled this deathless and I'll count it like that hahah - you will see on a video. Full Atziri run video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMk2VqcgZ9I Conclusion:
Spoiler
+ This is now on pair with the crit version and best builds in terms of map clear speed, and because mapping is what we all do 99% of the time in the end-game it was very important to achieve that. + Single target dmg is now significantly higher, and beats crit version by a mile. + This thing now goes throught game content effortlessly, both single and multitarget. + Fluid of play and responsiveness are now present (original build felt slow, well... like a tank, but this are modern times and we need modern tanks that are fast and agile). + Still have "double leech engine" and original defence stats of 68-70%% phys dmg reduction, 87/79/86 resistances unflasked (88/80/87 with legacy Saffells) making it very tanky. + Can reach now higher chaos resistance due to Devoto's making it less vulnerable to chaos dmg. + With more than 4,4k life corrupting blood is not that big issue (theres enough time to react). + Because of movement speed and increased AOE flasks are now much more sustainable. Latest guides: 3.11 Loki's Rainbownuke: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2904155 3.7 CI CoC Discharge: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2605608 3.7 Juggernaut life Mjolner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362 Last edited by RicoKGB#5871 on Sep 16, 2015, 8:02:59 PM
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Some things I agree with and other things I don't agree with...
I just started college and I'm incredibly busy right now. I don't have time to pay close attention to this thread anymore and I actually haven't played PoE in a few weeks now. I'm pretty sure it will be like this throughout the year and I just want to say sorry in advance. I'm going to be busy until summer. When I reply to things in this thread they will be very straight forward and short. With that out of the way, lets get to the first thing on the list: Wrath. You assumed that 50% of our damage is lightning and you're wrong. The second gem in Mjolner is lightning and actually has a very relevant amount of damage. I'd say that our lightning damage is closer to 70% of total damage. So Wrath gives us around 20% MORE damage. 20% vs your attack speed's 5% MORE damage. So yes, it is actually a big deal. I'm gonna have to stick with Wrath. Second: Alpha's Howl vs Devoto's. I think Devoto's is a good choice. I'm glad you pointed out that freeze is pretty easy to overcome if you just have an antifreeze flask. Devoto's is great for map clears because of the movement speed and I like that too. My only concern is Wrath. You're forced to put in a lv 3 empower in and take out Wrath. Sorry but that's a deal breaker for me. Also, DEX and Armor are negligible since we don't need DEX and we already cap phys reduc while in combat. Attack speed is alright, chaos res better, movement speed is great, mercury footprints are awesome. Since I really cannot give up Wrath, you need Alphas Howl to use it (which is also the reason the tree gets so many aura nodes). If you are fine without Wrath (which I'm really not), then you can also rework the tree to your liking and go with Devoto's. Devoto's isn't bad, I just like Alphas Howl + Wrath more. Third: Arc vs Ball Lightning. Before I get into things I just wanna point out that you missed the third reason for Arc: It's damage. When you actually look at the stats, it provides for a very large amount of the damage. Anyways, your Ball Lightning theory. I love it. Though, I'm a little shaky when you say you always get 5/5 charges when your picture shows 3/2. Like you said, I'll definitely test this because it looks very effective. I just need to double check and make sure that the Ball Lightning does the proper proc-ing. Also, I love your Star Trek Picard. Fourth: Amplify vs Jewel. I'm kinda tired lol, but this is a preference choice again. Neither is better or worse. I just prefer to have 12% increased attack speed from a jewel than increased AOE. I'm a person who goes bossing a lot so I prefer a jewel over AOE. If you map clear more often, then AOE looks good too. No disagreement here. It's definitely a preference pick. PS: You're video could have been stopped at different times in the discharge and the actually diameter measured looks like it was at different points. Only thing I can trust is the math. None the less, both are viable and a preference pick. I'm sorry but once I started reading the test for the RT vs Crit I just stopped... I really don't have time to keep dragging this on. If you like Crit, go Crit. I just like the RT build more and I like the stats more. I'm sorry for not reading your tests, it's very unprofessional of me. I'm not gonna tell you to stop going Crit, because if you like Crit, then do it man! Anyways, both RT and Crit are viable, but I'm gonna stick with RT. To make a long story short: -I'm gonna have to stick with Wrath -I'm gonna have to stick with Alphas Howl -I love your Ball Lightning theory and I'm definitely gonna try that out -I acknowledge that Amplify is viable, but since I boss, I'm gonna have to stick with the jewel -RT vs Crit, do whatever you like more :P (That's RT for me) Thank you for the feedback and update for my build, Rico! Haha, it seems like you play my build more than I do! I can tell you're dedicated to it and I really appreciate all you have done for the build, bringing up new ideas and testing different styles. Safe farming on Path of Exile! Edit: I really like the Ball Lightning mechanic and I'll definitely have to test it out a bit more when I have the time. (I was only testing Kaom) Also, Question: May I link your videos into the build guide itself? I've already credited your name before and I'll definitely credit it again :) Last edited by Chatframe#5437 on Sep 16, 2015, 10:36:51 PM
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" Yes Baal Lightning is op. Imo you dont need Wrath anymore really but If you're loving it so much, well, stick with it. I just prefer overall mobility a LOT more and single target deeps are so high right now with BL than Wrath doesnt matter for me. At some point - test yourself bossing with Baal Lightning and Devotos vs Alphas + Wrath. Acknowledge what you're actually loosing and gaining.
Spoiler
 " Yes this is one is a matter of preference. More procs and BLs spawns or more range and BLs range for proc. About those moments that I took pictures (to clarify):
Spoiler
Pics are from my vid that I replayed at slow motion carefully analising those momments. I took pictures when there was enough mobs and they're standing loose enough to determine discharge's range. You will see at those pictures that just at the edge of discharge's cone there are mobs being affected by its damage and little further away there are mobs not being affected.
" Hahaha, I did not test it this time, I've just updated the numbers for RT alone and now after my changes It came on top of crit every single time (old crit numbers from previous posts are still valid to compare if anyone want to - go back to page number 12). " That would be nice, thx! You can also use Picard :) My next stop is 6l Kingsguard with Fortify on a 6link. As for now (without Fortify) I'm little afraid of some lvl 80-82 bosses. I will try in a few minutes Excavation without fortify and see how it goes. If everything goes well I'll post a video. EDIT: Excavation went flawless, uploading the video now. And there will be bonus video to this :) EDIT 2: Videos up & ready: This are to demonstrate my adjusted version of the build's clear speed and tankiness: Deathless lvl 80 Excavation run: (48% more monster life!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGf8BtPr9aw
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 Deathless lvl 81 Zana's Dungeon run: (pack size, fracture, Exiles!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIl-BdEFiXc Latest guides: 3.11 Loki's Rainbownuke: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2904155 3.7 CI CoC Discharge: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2605608 3.7 Juggernaut life Mjolner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362 Last edited by RicoKGB#5871 on Sep 17, 2015, 9:26:33 AM
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Yes, regarding Devotos and Alphas + Wrath I know exactly what I'm losing and gaining
Oh okay so I guess you like RT more than Crit now? Alright cool! I'll add a video section with your name on it :P |
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" Yes with my gear & gems setup. Otherwise - its to slow and to vulnerable to chaos dmg. One more thing: if I ever manage to get my hands on corrupted +1 voidbringers I can free up 5 points from the tree. Setup in gloves will be: lvl 21 Purity of Light + lvl 21 Purity of Fire + Grace + Enlighten. Still need that 40%+ aura effect increase but not so much reduced mana reserved. This how it might look like: And 5 points ready to be spent on jewel sockets, life, maybe Celestial judgement cluster... Seriously - consider dropping that Wrath :) Latest guides: 3.11 Loki's Rainbownuke: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2904155 3.7 CI CoC Discharge: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2605608 3.7 Juggernaut life Mjolner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362 Last edited by RicoKGB#5871 on Sep 17, 2015, 1:05:08 PM
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I don't plan to drop Wrath, I've been thinking a lot about Whispers of Doom.
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