Petition to un-nerf revenants

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goetzjam wrote:

2.0 has had a huge amount of power creep for summoners as a whole as well, don't make it seem like summoners didn't have significant changes either.

minion damage is a MORE multiplier now
minion speed also applies cast\attackspeed, not just movement speed now
Jewels can roll minion damage, as well as other useful stats for summoners.

Generosity no longer increases the % aura re-severed.

Sure there are many other changes that increased the power level of summoners, were revenants as op as burning miscreations once were, no but damn if they weren't super freaking close to it.

minion damage is nice

minion speed : saying that it being buffed is power creep is like saying a mountain got taller because the trees at its base grew a little.

generosity never did hava mana multi if i recall

as for the jewels , minion builds already had access to damage and quite alot of it. what they lacked and still lack was an effective method at communicating that damage.

the revenants are pretty much the first mob i have seen that actually effectively communicates damage in a way that is atleast some what competitive.

id gleefully take another 20 % damage hit on them if it meant getting back those 2 projectiles.

at-least then i wouldn't need to waste two gem slots on chain and lmp

Let's nerf the Stygians more... I want to feed of the tears and qq of the forum :3

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goetzjam wrote:

2.0 has had a huge amount of power creep for summoners as a whole as well, don't make it seem like summoners didn't have significant changes either.

minion damage is a MORE multiplier now
minion speed also applies cast\attackspeed, not just movement speed now
Jewels can roll minion damage, as well as other useful stats for summoners.

Generosity no longer increases the % aura re-severed.

Attack and cast speed is useless for most spectres, they don't chain their attacks like players do.
Jewels buff other builds even more, some can get 4 straight dps stats out of one.
You're forgetting about the mana reservation nerf. Only players who can afford to spend 50ex per gem can approach the aura usage summoners had before.

+1

not playing a summoner (and probly never will) but still thumbs up. revenants are a friggin joke now; they dont feel like final area mobs anymore. their current 3-4 projectiles look and sound as if some dog was pissing into a bath lol

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Holocaustus wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

2.0 has had a huge amount of power creep for summoners as a whole as well, don't make it seem like summoners didn't have significant changes either.

minion damage is a MORE multiplier now
minion speed also applies cast\attackspeed, not just movement speed now
Jewels can roll minion damage, as well as other useful stats for summoners.

Generosity no longer increases the % aura re-severed.

Attack and cast speed is useless for most spectres, they don't chain their attacks like players do.
Jewels buff other builds even more, some can get 4 straight dps stats out of one.
You're forgetting about the mana reservation nerf. Only players who can afford to spend 50ex per gem can approach the aura usage summoners had before.

He is right though, summoners in total aren't bad, they are still in a fair state and the reason for this is because Revenants didn't make them really stronger. The most OP thing about the Revenant was that it was a lvl70 mob. Right now I'm using lvl70 evangelists and there isn't any difference, Revenants just got you a lvl70 mob you could use. That was there power, it allowed summoners to just hop into the game and get something done without having to be lucky to get a good spectre in a map and at this level even just one level makes a very big difference.

My performance wasn't even slightly affected if I am able to get one of the good spectres with lvl70. Since I'm just using 4l right now I can actually use any caster since supporting them with Faster Casting, Spell Echo and Minion Damage makes them all very nice if they have a good level. That is the most important stat for spectres. Yes a lvl74 Evangelist will stiill be better than most other spectres, but a lvl74 Arc Mages does a lot compared to your lvl67 upper sceptre evangelist.

And the power of a spectre mainly consists of two things:

1. Its ability to stay alive
2. Its ability to cover large areas with its damage

Revenants were top in the first, due to their high level, their tendency to move away from enemies and in general a fair pool of HP. However their AoE coverage didn't really compare to some other spectres. Horrors have a piercing 2 screen range projectile that creates dead bodies before you can see the enemy. However the interesting part about the Revenant was its ability to deal incredible damage against single targets if they are close. That is a similar trait to the bubble of evangelists or the bleeding Horrors provide. And I felt if the Revenant did something it was providing a spectre for a different role than other spectres, it was rather obvious that the big advantage of revenants was there fantastic single target damage compared to other spectres.

I don't think removing projectiles was the best way. A small damage nerf or a simple change to the attack (making the barrage take more time) would have been enough. Now they are simply another below average spectre that you will only use if you get them on a high level in a map without Sentinels, Incinerators, Voidbearers, Evangelists, Horrors, Arc Mages, Lantern Bearers, Tentacle Miscreations or Chimerals.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Patch Notes...
Stygian Revenants now
1. fire three lightning projectiles (down from five), and
2. deal 30% less damage with them.
3. Their revived minions now explode for 20% less damage.

These monsters were extremely efficient at killing players. This purpose of this change is to prevent mass extinction of exiles, rather than to nerf them as spectres.

2 & 3. Makes sense to me. Less damage to players.
1. Doesn't make sense. Shotgunning is gone, this has very little effect on players, except parties and summoner. The former gets no sympathy and the latter doesn't want nerfs.

Conclusions:
1. Keep the 30% and 20% damage nerfs.
2. Return number of projectiles to 5.

Only the projectiles are fired 1 at a time barrage style right in your face. They don't count as shotgun and could hit you 5 times.

Well I made them work not using Anger's setup where he uses a Sire of shards.

I'll record it in a bit.

also I recorded my fire based / alchemist setup if you wanna look at it

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Here for all you dooms day people I recorded two video's for you

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Here I recorded a small segment of my ''fire setup'' vs torture boss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIMDo3TO7ss

Recorded a Orchad run

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2hjM8sE98c

I'll record a 77+ once I get it again.

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goetzjam wrote:

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lobex wrote:

Imagine a white monster that could spawn in pac's from underground directly next to you with a very strong melee attack that could effectively 1 shot you, and people would abandon maps that they found them in if they were lucky enough to escape from. Imagine if they stayed in the game even after many complaints, and people just said build tankier or avoide them until it got nerfed after over a year.

Lol, no imagine there being a ranged mob that literally can 1 shot you, not only can they 1 shot you, the can summon adds to keep you occupied while you try to position yourself.

Now imagine they also made said mobs that spawn from underground less deadly because they realized it was a mistake to have it like that.

[Removed by Support]


OP mobs should not be left OP just because 1 class\playstyle benefits from them being OP. How does that not sound stupid to you?

Yes the mob was hitting hard against people especialy if they wernt useing a topaz flask or purity of lightning to help mitigate the damage. There is no doubt that they were not overtuned in certian circumstances.

My point in my post is to make an example that it was acceptable in GGG's eyes to take over a year to do something about devourers. Over a year of killing exiles until they wrote a bit of new code to change the problem. This was also implemented outside of a league, like almost all other changes in balance they make that effect peoples builds.

Something needed to be done in both cases as they were both the same in having overtuned damage mixed with their mechanics. Its the way that GGG came up with the solution to overnerf the revenants and the timeing of it two weeks into a new league, after having months of testing. Also on top of that people now treating players who were negatively effected in a way that its their own fault for for playing with revenants, that they dont realy care. It feels a bit like they are twisting the knife.
Why should those people then in turn show the courtesy that wasnt show to them?

[Removed by Support]

ok after playing the whole day with the nerfed spectres i have to admit that its not viable anymore as long as you dont have 6L or using more than 3 spectres. i added more dmg, and i changed my gems a bit. but all in all its really really weird to play with revenants now, cause i get the feeling that they behave completely different than before, not just the missing dmg/projectiles. sumetimes they have so much downtime, and it seems they always do a good job few secs after convocation and then just running around in circles and staying in the zerg and dont attack/shoot properly.

i will stop playing now cause im way to frustrated. almost no currency for a fast reroll, and the items angryAA refered in his video to make the specs viable are to expensive for me.
atleast i have a good smelling pizza here that i will enjoy now. otherwise rip in pepperoni irl. :(

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I_Vanilla_I wrote:

ok after playing the whole day with the nerfed spectres i have to admit that its not viable anymore as long as you dont have 6L or using more than 3 spectres. i added more dmg, and i changed my gems a bit. but all in all its really really weird to play with revenants now, cause i get the feeling that they behave completely different than before, not just the missing dmg/projectiles. sumetimes they have so much downtime, and it seems they always do a good job few secs after convocation and then just running around in circles and staying in the zerg and dont attack/shoot properly.

i will stop playing now cause im way to frustrated. almost no currency for a fast reroll, and the items angryAA refered in his video to make the specs viable are to expensive for me.
atleast i have a pood smelling pizza here that i will enjoy now. otherwise rip in pepperoni irl. :(

They still work even with a 4L.