The Awakening Item Page and Top-Tier Supporter Beta Access

Awesome can't wait for more people to be let in :)

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Daxora wrote:

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Are certain accounts more likely than others to get in? I've played PoE for 3000 hours.

All accounts have an equal chance of being selected. It's important that we get a mix of new players and veterans. Their feedback and data is equally useful.

You guys used to stick to your word...

Alphas and streamers are reasonable, and obviously it's up t you who you let in. But then don't tell people that they can't buy in to the beta, when you are going to change that just after the last day of supporter packs. Thats's just cheesy.
Especially after hyping up the ppl for release of poe2.0 and announcing a closed beta.

Disappointed...

Um... GGG telling people they can't buy into beta, and then deciding to grant access for those that bought top-tier packs AFTER top-tier packs cannot be bought... is exactly GGG NOT letting people buy into beta.

Had GGG announced their decision to grant access to those that purchased a top-tier pack while the top-tier Grandmaster pack could be purchased... this would have been GGG allowing people to buy their way into beta... but GGG didn't do this did they.

Glad GGG has ethics. Other companies would have sold beta keys for $500 each.

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DalaiLama wrote:

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verkodiablo wrote:

Well if that grocery store says :: you will be eating food in april free! all of you... Then in april they say oh wait you will eat it 6-8 weeks later. In the mean time some random people gonna get to chance to eat but every1 has a chance to eat.

No, the GGG grocery is giving out free apples, free steaks and free orange juice. They announce they will have free Pizza in 6-8 weeks. The people that helped them buy the Pizza oven get to help them test out some of their new pizza flavors, and once they have the right recipe, they will let everyone else have free pizza. In the meantime the beta pizza testers are trying to figure out whether 35 ghost chili peppers are too hot for one pizza.

Someone please order this man some free op-Pizza

You guys realize that they're gonna let more and more people into the beta right? Even if you don't get into the beta, which I doubt, you have a whole expansion to look forward to. For free...

Stop whining, pls.

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sinfoniantuba11 wrote:

Does this mean those accounts are taken out of the timer pool since the top-tier supporters are guaranteed access now?

i'm curious about this as well.

otherwise the forums are no surprise at all.

"general discussion" forums in any game seem to have devolved into saltmines everywhere.

it doesn't matter which game, it doesn't matter what's being announced.
the only thing you can count on is a shitstorm equivalent to the perceived scope of what is being announced.


when you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back.
a lot of people seem to clearly get more out of staring into/feeding the abyss than actually playing the game.


just my two drips in an ocean of piss.

damn, wish I was rich so I could of bbought a better supporter pack. But again whatevs

Pay to play beta... -.-
Why not give players with most playtime access? Sounds a lot more fair.
On the other side, i totaly understand that those who support most get access.

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Toksic wrote:

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Daxora wrote:

"

Are certain accounts more likely than others to get in? I've played PoE for 3000 hours.

All accounts have an equal chance of being selected. It's important that we get a mix of new players and veterans. Their feedback and data is equally useful.

You guys used to stick to your word...

Alphas and streamers are reasonable, and obviously it's up t you who you let in. But then don't tell people that they can't buy in to the beta, when you are going to change that just after the last day of supporter packs. Thats's just cheesy.
Especially after hyping up the ppl for release of poe2.0 and announcing a closed beta.

Disappointed...

-_- Ugh. No one bought into the beta.

Apparently you did. You just didn't know it when bought the supporter pack. Also who didn't buy it, didn't know fully what they miss out.
In my opinion announcing a pack for xyz$ with beta key would have been fair. People would know what they are paying for, or acknowledge that their chances are that much worse if they don't buy it. That's ok with me, GGG needs to make money, I don't mean to blame them about it.

But doing it this way feels like they saying "You didn't support us enough so far, too late now, F you."

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Call me when they start selling beta keys for 10 dollars,

I went back to 2011 to try and call you about GGG selling "Early Access" beta keys for $10, but apparently 4G phones don't work there.

While I can understand and sympathize with the frustration of not getting into PoE 2.0 beta, that frustration does not magically turn assumptions or logical fallacies into truth.

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Peripherally wrote:

If they decide to include Awakening supporter packs as a part of the Beta promotion...then it's crossed a line about p2p/p2w that GGG claimed they'd never cross.

A) It is a beta test - not the released version of the game, and since GGG is making the game, they get to determine the terms of what "Playing" means versus Beta "Testing". There are other free to play games that let you pay to get access to the beta version, and they are still considered free to play.

B) GGG already did "pay to get into" the PoE closed Beta.

So - the above argument is both false and moot.

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Peripherally wrote:

However! This hasn't happened yet and talking about it as if it has would be speculative/false/irresponsible.

C) See B above.

D) Talking about something that hasn't happened is always speculative. Being able to think about future activities is a normal function for intelligent animals. There is nothing irresponsible about players speculating about what might happen.

E) If it were irresponsible to speculate, then your speculating about GGG crossing the line would be both hypocritical and irresponsible.

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Peripherally wrote:

Because were they to allow Beta access as a thing with upcoming Awakening supporter packs, that essentially translates into "pay money = get to play [Beta]".

F)See B - GGG did exactly this, allowed people to play Beta and announced it ahead of time. They had a free weekend where anyone could have access before hand, and then opened the opportunity to get into the Beta (for $10 iirc). This was a HUGE boost toward giving GGG the financial resources necessary to add staffing and execute long term plans. We probably wouldn't be getting Act IV this soon, if it weren't for the money spent then.

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Peripherally wrote:

Granted its not a final release,

That's almost like saying, granted the victim died naturally of old age, but it's still murder. You are equating Beta testing to playing the released game, and they are not the same thing. For those who haven't participated in Path of Exile's Beta I will explain a points on how they are different:

1)Your skill gems may get nerfed, buffed, or deleted any day. GGG owes you no apology or explanation. You are expected to pick up however you can, and make the best of what the beta is offering TODAY. Tommorow may be different. Today, a few hours later may be different.

2)Your skill tree may get changed. Nodes may get moved, deleted, nerfed or buffed. If there is a big change, GGG usually offered a passive reset. Depending on how much your gear revolved around the skill tree, you might be better off starting a new character.

3)You will run into some bugs. The game may hang on a quest, and you have to redo it all over. You might do the quest, and get it ticked off in the character log, but never be able to collect the reward. (In the released game, GGG tries to make amends for something like this, in the beta test, they are primarily concerned with fixing the problem for release.)

4)You will suffer some deaths because of bugs, glitches or game imbalance. Monsters may one shot you that are several screens away. You might get killed before you ever get loaded into the instance.

5)Your items may change radically. Today, your bow might be overpowered and you are in easy mode, and tomorrow, that bow's damage has been cut in half, and your ranged build is struggling and not worth continuing.

In short - You should have no expectations of safely getting to play a character to the end game. There is no permanence, and a lot of unpredictability. It can be frustrating playing in a beta test, especially when you find something fun, and then it is suddenly gone, or changed so much as to no longer be fun.

Additionally, the released version of 2.0 will have more content that is not accessible in the beta. Hitting that wall and knowing there is something cool behind it that you can't get to yet can be a bummer too. For instance, when Beta players reached the top of the Vaal Pyramid and not having any monster to fight, but knowing there would be some kind of epic battle, was a huge tease.

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Peripherally wrote:

but you and most everyone who complains about salt (in this case) have to understand that just because one has money to pay does NOT equate and SHOULD never equate to either a sense of entitlement over others

G)You have the sense of entitlement backwards. Expecting something that you haven't done anything to obtain is entitlement. Expecting something because you made an effort may be presumptuous, depending on what you did and what you expect.

Let me explain a bit more.

The air you breathe isn't free. The oxygen you take in has pollutants and is killing off some of the cells in your body. The Erythrocytes (red blood cells) that carried the oxygen and cleansed the carbon dioxide from your body last December have all died.

Your diaphragm that pulls the air into your lungs is a muscle that requires food and nutrients.

Animals and/or plants died to provide that energy and nutrients.

And then there is the fact that at least one star had to die, if not two or more star cycles to provide the heavy elements that are necessary for our bodies.

Everything has a cost. Your searches on Google aren't free either. Someone has to pay for them.

I find it absurd that a person who gets something without any effort complains about the conditions placed on the "free" stuff.

It's as if Person A is giving Person B a free house, only to have Person B complain that that they only have a city house and don't get the same Beach Front property house for two more weeks that Person A has.

GGG isn't even giving that much. They are allowing Person A to try out the house while it is still under construction, with all the noise and smell of hammering and drilling etc.

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Peripherally wrote:

("I paid this money, thus I deserve to get in" = worst and poorest logic in history,

H) This is your opinion.

I) Your opinion runs contrary to millions of years of evolution. It is like a hummingbird with a short beak saying that the hummingbird with the longer beak doesn't deserve to get the nectar from that flower just because the long beaked bird paid the evolutionary price to adapt. It's like saying the person who studied hard doesn't deserve to get good grades.

Deserve = Do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment). In this case, the players provided a large chunk of funding to support the game. That money made further development possible, and it allowed/allows other players to play without paying at all.

If we were discussing a real sense of fairness the top supporters would not only get a beta key, but would get a few extra ones to hand out to their friends - and it would be deserved.

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Peripherally wrote:

Let me clarify, being able to pay is a *bonus*.

Then I gift you with the *bonus* of not one, but a thousand bonus packs. You should feel extremely blessed to be able to give GGG a million dollars. With those kind of bonuses, who needs the beta test?

Now, if you meant being able to play without paying is a bonus, then I would agree with you that it is good for those who can't afford to pay.

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Peripherally wrote:

However, being a donator doesn't mean that one suddenly becomes, legally, an "investor" or somehow "part-owner" into the project.

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Peripherally wrote:

People are fans of the game who can pay so they do pay.

J) There are plenty that are fans of the game AND can afford to pay, who don't. There are also plenty who give a small amount once and consider that good.

K) The people who do decide to fund GGG regularly, or in large chunks do so for complex reasons.

For example - all the people living in Calcutta don't live there because they are fans of Calcutta and can afford to live there.

Some do it for the MTX or stash tabs. Some do it for the titles or prestige. Some do it out of a sense of obligation for what they get out of the game. Some do it because they feel they need to do their part to keep the game going. Some do it out of a sense of largesse. Some do it for other reasons.

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Peripherally wrote:

Explicitly, the chain of what is "necessary" or should be thought of as "necessary" has to end there because it was a voluntary action to begin with.

The servers cost money to run. GGG needs money to pay for the servers. The money is necessary. GGG supporters are necessary for people to be able to play the game at all, let alone Beta test.

Whether someone gives you food to eat does not determine whether food is necessary for the human body to survive.

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Peripherally wrote:

You cannot give a gift to someone then expect 5 seconds later that that person suddenly owes you "X" amount of favors; people who ask this are of the lowest category of those being 'generous'.

L) Five seconds later? Is two, three or even four years five seconds? The Diamond supporters for example have been around for a long time, not a short period of time

M)The lowest category of generous? Anyone that follows studies of Altruism (the overall category into which generosity falls)would know that scientists themselves barely understand what makes people give or help out when there is seemingly no benefit to the giver/helper. Some scientists believe there must always be a selfish motive. Again, your statement is your opinion only, and has little real life relevance or truth to it. People build relationships based on being courteous and kind to each other. Those little gifts and kindnesses are reciprocated. The person that gave you a ride home on a rainy day might not expect you to help them change a flat tire, but it sure as hell isn't wrong for you to offer to help them change a tire. There are religions and ethos based on giving and receiving.

The golden rule is to treat others as you would hope they would treat you. The golden rule isn't help others and never expect them to ever help you.

We aren't talking about a billionaire expecting to be paid back when they give a homeless person five dollars. I'll explain what this is with a quick story:

In the summer of 2011, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet learn that their neighbor Jim Beam has injured his back and can no longer use a push mower. Bill and Warren each give Jim $1,000 to help him get a riding mower. Jim decides he's going to let everyone in the neighborhood use the riding mower free. Steve Jobs feels no need to help Jim pay for the mower or the gas, but he does like using Jim's riding mower for free.

In the spring of 2015, Jim decides to upgrade and gets a fancy new riding mower with an awesome stereo, air conditioning and a chair with a built in back massage. Everyone in the neighborhood is excited to use this new mower to mow their lawns.

Jim tells them he's still waiting for all the parts to come in (He has the stereo, but no massage chair yet, and the air conditioning sometimes blows out really hot air or dust). Nevertheless, everyone wants to try it out. Jim says he will let Bill and Warren drive it around on the driveway since they helped him buy the first one. Jim says when its all ready to go, everyone in the neighborhood can use it for free just like they did the old one.

Steve Jobs complains that this isn't fair, and that they should all have equal rights to test out the new mower on Jim Beam's driveway.

This is what we are talking about.

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Peripherally wrote:

It is a false virtue in that sense. But back to the point, the issue is GGG should never make money a factor in deciding who gets to play PoE, ever.

Whatever criteria they choose is their choice, but money should not be one of them. People who feel otherwise are just allowing their selfish interests to cloud judgement on what should be an egalitarian thing not a monopoly.

N)Please look up the definition of a Monopoly. It is certainly not the ability to use something first. It is also not the ability to use something while others can use it. (Beta timer)

O) Realistically speaking, if enough people don't support GGG, there will be 2 choices:

1) Shut down the game
2) Make PoE pay to play only.

Neither one of those choices is better for the people who play but don't play.

This is a beta test - not the release version. Saying that someone should get to play the beta is like saying that that person should get to see the concept sketches before GGG decides on the final versions.

TL/DR The post I am replying to makes so many illogical and emotion based judgements that it's further from the truth than Pluto is to the Sun.