The Awakening Item Page and Top-Tier Supporter Beta Access

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Munion wrote:

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Mootthemad wrote:

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Munion wrote:

I have never heard another closed beta with payed access be called pay to win. And these are games where you literally payed for something that listed a beta key...

Yea.. are thoose games starting competitive leagues with nice and fresh ladders after said beta ends?

Any mmo where competitive players take world firsts seriously. May not be an official ladder, but if you think it isn't a serious competition then you are crazy. Any pvp competive mmo. Competition does not only exist in official ladders.

Which mmo had this buyin beta?

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DalaiLama wrote:

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monkuar wrote:

Let's talk about vaal the boss for example.

Player 1 Starts the new league fresh and gets to vaal, dies from vaal smash because he had no idea that, that boss had that skill.

Player 2 Starts the new league (but had closed beta for 3 months and knows all all about vaal and his vaal smash skill). He dodges the smash and get's ahead of player 1 in the ladder.


Boom. Advantage and Pay 2 Win. (Especially since they've included supporters access to beta). Same logic applies here but with the new bosses in act 4.

Your example is logical and makes good sense at first look. It is incomplete though:

Player 2 - does have a slight advantage in being able to practice moving away from the Vaal smash with that character and his current movespeed and move skills(boots, gear% boost etc).

Player 1- can watch videos/streams of Vaal smash and get the gist of dodging it.
Player 1 - can read about Vaal smash and know to dodge it.

Here's the real proof of the flaw in your advantage argument"

Player 2 keeps getting killed because of falling rocks, because they rely solely on what she learns herself.

Player 1 reads in the forum about
A) getting close to Vaal when rocks fall
B) small rocks that do no damage showing likely place that a big rock is about to fall
Player 1 survives many more Vaal battles than player 2.

Player 2 could practice against vaal smash and read the forums, follow the streamers etc. BUT -

Player 1 can watch a different streamer or read another source of information every time player 2 is "practicing" against Vaal. If this is the case, than Player 1 will always have the advantage.

Information is real power, and the information of many outweighs the information of the few, or the one.

You took the time to write this out much better than when I tried explaining the same thing to him. Maybe he will understand this time =D

Your picture made me sad, Dalai.

I am excited that GGG decided to award high tier supporters with a rolled out CB access.

I am glad they did it after removing the ability to buy packs, taking away the pay-to-win aspect of it. (um.. win at wut? random crashing? unfinished art assets? incomplete acts? unbalanced difficulties? occasional wipe to all my work? win at being the first to see new content.. ah.. already lost that one.)

I am sad (but not shocked at all) to watch so much drama recently, from highly visible players and the community in turn, from one of the greatest and most helpful gaming communities I have ever been a small part of, about so much nothing.

Recently, forums all over remind me of a funny story

It's a game.
PIXELS.
Nothing more.
This is what I tell myself.

The second it stops being about fun and enjoyment I shall move along.
As I did with CS1.6/CS:S after 4 years of CAL/TWL
As I did after 8 years WoW raiding.
There are 111 games in my Steam library. Origin (lawl.. origin). Three consoles in my living room. D&D books and dice, MTG cards, closet full of board games and then there is a door that leads outside (I think).

If I didn't ever get in the beta then so be it. I love the random entry generator. Feels awesomely fair to me.

Give me new packs. New shirts. New NEW.
Kudos GGG

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Mootthemad wrote:

Which mmo had this buyin beta?

Most recently that I played, Archeage. Competitive pvp with a payed entry to beta/alpha. People were mad it cost so much, bet I never once heard someone say entry itself was p2w. Now other things that game did got pretty damn p2w lol. But I never heard alpha/beta payed access called p2w. That doesn't mean no1 ever said, maybe someone did. But it wasn't near the level of complaining seen here. Pretty much any kickstarter mmo sells beta access, I've yet to see that called p2w.

This is definitely a step in the right direction.

What about people who have spent $500+ on packs and points overall, should they not also be invited to the beta?

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Mootthemad wrote:

Which mmo had this buyin beta?

Archeage & The Repopulation are two I've been in. Black Desert Online is doing one right now. There are too many to count

I was in Heroes of the Storm Alpha, which means i've been playing longer than people in beta or those at launch. It wasn't a buy-in, but still a privilege not afforded to everyone.

What would your solution to your problem be anyway?

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DalaiLama wrote:

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monkuar wrote:

Let's talk about vaal the boss for example.

Player 1 Starts the new league fresh and gets to vaal, dies from vaal smash because he had no idea that, that boss had that skill.

Player 2 Starts the new league (but had closed beta for 3 months and knows all all about vaal and his vaal smash skill). He dodges the smash and get's ahead of player 1 in the ladder.


Boom. Advantage and Pay 2 Win. (Especially since they've included supporters access to beta). Same logic applies here but with the new bosses in act 4.

Your example is logical and makes good sense at first look. It is incomplete though:

Player 2 - does have a slight advantage in being able to practice moving away from the Vaal smash with that character and his current movespeed and move skills(boots, gear% boost etc).

Player 1- can watch videos/streams of Vaal smash and get the gist of dodging it.
Player 1 - can read about Vaal smash and know to dodge it.

Here's the real proof of the flaw in your advantage argument"

Player 2 keeps getting killed because of falling rocks, because they rely solely on what she learns herself.

Player 1 reads in the forum about
A) getting close to Vaal when rocks fall
B) small rocks that do no damage showing likely place that a big rock is about to fall
Player 1 survives many more Vaal battles than player 2.

Player 2 could practice against vaal smash and read the forums, follow the streamers etc. BUT -

Player 1 can watch a different streamer or read another source of information every time player 2 is "practicing" against Vaal. If this is the case, than Player 1 will always have the advantage.

Information is real power, and the information of many outweighs the information of the few, or the one.

you are also missing a key point in the beta. There is only x amount of information available in the current state of the beta so being able to actually practice the beta will always be more of an advantage than just reading about it.

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DalaiLama wrote:

logical fallacies: ep101

player 2 encounters said vaal in beta practices with it, if he finds it hard he can ask the other testers, look up on the forums, or streams, or video sharing portals

player 1 who is not in the beta does not encounter it. If he is watching a stream, there is only a slight chance the encounter will be shown there, and why would he look for it if he doesn't even know about it?

Fastforward: content hits prod, race starts, player 2 knows his way, player 1 gotta look up what the actual hell is he encountering right now..

Sorry guys but I have to agree with monkuar there is one advantage that the people currently playing beta have over the rest...


They don't have to sit here and read 50 pages of monkuars incessant, irrelevant, confounded drivel...