A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

"

GDSLICK wrote:

I don't really see what is so confusing about this?

this is how EB should have always worked..
they made a mistake implementing it and are now going about fixing it which is awesome.

CI = you are immune to chaos dmg. your health is DELETED (does not become es)(more point bonus behind required)(no life modifiers apply to this es)

BM = Your mana is DELETED you can cast with life (1 more point for good reserve bonus required)(no mana modifiers apply to your "lifemana")

VP = you get 100% leech rate at ONLY 40% effectiveness, also life regen is DELETED completely.

EB Currently = your es becomes mana, all es and mana modifiers apply to this bonus. for both es already bonus converted and es turned into mana then bonus converted. mana regen applies to all es and mana.

hrmmmm.

its not hard to see that powerful keystones like this have drawbacks eldritch battery does not currently have. you sacrifice something for something else in all these cases.
With eldritch battery being CLEARLY lower risk higher reward then any of these examples.



PROCEEEED WITH THE CHLORAPHYLL.. RIGHT.

i mean base line stupidity look at you, so you don't sacrifice anything, in your opinion, converting energy shield into mana? nothing at all? nothing gets sacrificed? noting? that energy shield thingy, it's nothing right, no big deal?

I think Rory began this thread in General Discussion just to make
sure the most people saw the thread. It could end up being a pretty
impactful change, and they are trying to let us know a.s.a.p.
So yes, maybe it's not the correct forum but in this case you
can understand why.

Also, people are still talking like stuff is going to be the same.
It's not going to be the same.
This is an eldritch battery keystone change.. the position and values of other
nodes, notables, and keystones will/might change.

The values and ways different mechanics outside of this 1 change may/might/will
be changing all over the place.
So amount of nodes needs, mana costs, armor values.. these thing's might be
different soon in a lot of cases.

This is just 1 change to how eldritch battery converts es to mana,
and how the converted esmana is displayed and used.

That's all.

We won't know anything else for a while sadly :(

or hopefully we will keep getting cool posts like this detailing stuff they
are working on.. unless they decide to stop doing it because of all the
bitching and moaning in the thread.

edit: to the post right above me..
with ci your life is gone, becomes nothing
with blood magic your mana is gone it becomes nothing

with eldritch battery your es becomes mana. you don't just "poof" lose anything.
yes, baseline stupidity. exactly.

Good idea, the old eldritch battery was too good and simple to take. happy testing

so Boem with your 3.8k life you not once were surprised by crit devos in a high map or leaped/charged by a group of mobs?

Yes its possible to play is super safe and slow and avoid a lot of stuff but you will get one shot in high maps with your level of defence. Be it a random crit from a bird or a charge or sth else. Your set up is just not long term viable for HC right now.

"

andkamen wrote:

so Boem with your 3.8k life you not once were surprised by crit devos in a high map or leaped/charged by a group of mobs?

Yes its possible to play is super safe and slow and avoid a lot of stuff but you will get one shot in high maps with your level of defence. Be it a random crit from a bird or a charge or sth else. Your set up is just not long term viable for HC right now.

i got ripped by a cult devourer pack in a 100% plateau map with 95% extra fire/vulnerability etc etc

A map i would never run on hc.

And that map contained 18 devourer packs of which 6 where blue and 4 where rares.

So one dead with my level of defenses is acceptable at that stage and to be expected for running the content i do with the defenses i have.

also that rip was player error, i pressed my shock immunity flask to late to nullify the cult modifier.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : i should ask clarification, are you talking about my sparker or my MoM melee character?

You only need ONE mistake to die. And with the right combo of Rare/Blue mods and Map mods (or any other misc stuff, like terrain), you WILL die.

"

Boem wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

and yeah, MoM AA is not tanky compared to other defenses at all, its tanky compared to having virtually no defenses which is usually the other choice most casters are faced with, MoM AA or just no defenses, hardly any life, hardly any life regen, either do the cloak of D AA thing or be completely undefended basically.

So why is this character running 76 with 100% modifiers on it at lvl 83 currently?

Spoiler

Spoiler

And dies like never?

I killed abaxoth yesterday in a 77 shrine for example with 90% modifiers. With 64%cold resis to top it off and 3.8k damage per projectile.

4% physical reduction, 75fire/64cold/78light etc maybe 8% evasion and phase/phase acro and 4k life.

Dual wielding as you can see, tabula rasa etc etc barely naked compared to other characters i have.

Just saying....

And yeah i think people should make choices on aura sacrificing if they wanna run EB/MoM that's a choice. Do i run grace this map or remove it for more buffer etc etc. AA is basically a cherry on top of a kiting defense system.(chill ground/effect + move speed on qaulity)

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

@snorkle

I must probably be the only retard of a player in the entire PoE community that did extensive testing with MoM on the passive tree when it concern viability of it in the melee part of the passive tree.

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1140014/page/1

So please tell me i have no experience with the mechanics we are discussing because that's basically what i do in PoE.

Take mechanics, and push them to there limits.

I could link you a couple dozen builds i designed featuring all of the defensive mechanics PoE offers and all pushed to there limits and combination effectiveness vs efficiency.

And yes i made MoM/EB/AA casters and guess what, kiting is an active process, you design around it with complementary skills and play accordingly. Positioning and CC skills for mob control are mandatory if you wanna do it good. If you don't want to do that, expect to be punished for that lack of efforts.

And guess what, the intelligence part of the tree is associated with CC and avoidance skills to enable that kiting.

Peace,

-Boem-

Im still not actually sure what you are trying to say here. Not saying any point you are making is wrong or that I disagree with you, I just dont actually know what your point regarding all this is and how it relates.


The tangent we were commenting on was "is EB MoM AA more or less tanky/survivable/whatever you want to call it than other mitigation methods" and the answer is basically less tanky, without a doubt less tanky than a number of other forms of mitigation that require the same of less investment.

you cna kite with anything, if you are saying kiting is better than actual defenses, yes Id agree to some extent kiting and playing well, manually evading damage as I sometimes call it is a major, major thing in this game. That doesnt really relate to the subject tho as anyone can kite, chilled ground from AA and a 7% movespeed buff does not make for a better kiter than Quickstep and the removal of move penalties from armour that Art of the Gladiator gives along with using Rats Nest or Devotos etc.

We were talking about what is a stronger defense, it has been put forward multiple times that MoM AA EB is overpowered because it is a stronger defense setup than everything else and that just isnt true, its not even close to being true.

"

CantripN wrote:

You only need ONE mistake to die. And with the right combo of Rare/Blue mods and Map mods (or any other misc stuff, like terrain), you WILL die.

Spoiler

BTW, I wonder what your tooltip / defensive stats were on that Sparker. I played a Crit Sparker this league, seems 1000% times better.

This is going off-topic, but so what?

A game that is designed to kill you, kill's you eventually. Sounds legit.

Also i am running that sparker on softcore atm so i am doing stuff i would not do on hc cause brains.

The sparker does 3.8k dps per projectile, vaal spark swap in for bosses. lmp provides up to 20k single target dps atm. (lvl 18 spark gem if i remember correctly etc) It feels like more though, most rares drop dead after a double echo cast in point blank. crit or shock only improves that rate.

Mostly defensive specced atm though, just started going dps nodes at lvl 81(now 83) got 4K hp with these items so do the math, prolly around 190%life.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Im still not actually sure what you are trying to say here. Not saying any point you are making is wrong or that I disagree with you, I just dont actually know what your point regarding all this is and how it relates.


The tangent we were commenting on was "is EB MoM AA more or less tanky/survivable/whatever you want to call it than other mitigation methods" and the answer is basically less tanky, without a doubt less tanky than a number of other forms of mitigation that require the same of less investment.

you cna kite with anything, if you are saying kiting is better than actual defenses, yes Id agree to some extent kiting and playing well, manually evading damage as I sometimes call it is a major, major thing in this game. That doesnt really relate to the subject tho as anyone can kite, chilled ground from AA and a 7% movespeed buff does not make for a better kiter than Quickstep and the removal of move penalties from armour that Art of the Gladiator gives along with using Rats Nest or Devotos etc.

We were talking about what is a stronger defense, it has been put forward multiple times that MoM AA EB is overpowered because it is a stronger defense setup than everything else and that just isnt true, its not even close to being true.

first of all, if those other methods are more tanky like you make them out to be, why are you not utilizing them on your caster build?

acro/phase acro/coil/ondars guile are totally legit and viable to take with casters.

Basically your saying "yeah this method is less tanky then this method which is also perfectly viable with a caster"

your point being? Other then "ok so take those defensive options"

No clue why you are running EB/MoM/AA to begin with if those other options are strictly superior.

And my point is that EB/MoM/AA is an extremely versatile defensive form if done correctly for minimal investment against high burst damage. The only type of damage a ranged character should ever reliably sustain to begin with.

This becomes even more apparent when coupled with good CC ability's and distractions to soak up damage, which the intelligence tree is centered around.

It appears that for you guys the defensive form needs to be close to godlike in order to be considered. instead of just a reliable way to increase EHP value's and play accordingly.

nothing prevents you from sustaining a burst spike, losing all buffer on mana and retreating to regain that buffer other then the play-style mentality.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also depending on this implementation this opens up potential new synergy's between mechanics and as such new builds all together. While not necessarily reducing the effect on MoM/AA if done correctly.(tweaks of GGG and investment)

What about a new keystone titled, "chaos mana."

transform your mana into chaos. Cost of skills are reduced by 50%, damage is split between life, energy shield and mana. You can no longer regenerate life, mana or energy shield.

You get a major boost in defense and easier to cast skills... I thought this would be good for those that like to stack damage. Bit of fun no?