A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

"

GDSLICK wrote:

lol..
your es will only move from life to mana
if you take eb.. and move the es to mana.

this thread has gotten extremely confusing.
I am FOR this change.
I want to see it tested, I want to see it fine tuned
I want to see it implemented.

But this thread has just become a jumbled mess of
misinformation and confusion.

ok i would say i wanna see this change in the upcoming cb too ^^

currently i could imagine this change works extremely well for life based summoner build

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Splift wrote:

They said the reason they are considering this change is because (among other reasons) its hard to balance between EB and non eb especially when nealy 100% of life casters take eb.

sry but thats ridiculous. You just cut down what eb does by removing es and applying 50% of it to mana and then boost mana regen and % mana on the tree so that eb casters end up in exactly the same spot but non eb casters end up with much more mana and mana regen hence closig the gap between them. Thats the simple, obvious, any idiot can see it way to do it that doesnt destroy tons of builds and introduce the most retardedly complex and baffling mechanic set to date.

Wow your such a genius, not.

A mechanic like this tends to be either 100% nessesary or 100% useless. wearing all that es gear for half the effect is like taking acrobatics and EB together now.... except you dont get dodge %.

All that would do is make it so all casters DONT use EB instead of all casters taking EB.

yes they could just put eldritch battery 1 behind eldritch battery 2.
perfect solution

eldritch battery 1 is far to strong in its current state, and that's why
they are changing it. but 1 more passive point should really do the trick.

while we are at it. lets put chaos inoculation 2 behind chaos inoculation 1.
chaos inoculation 2 will actually convert all your life to es.
but hey, 1 more passive point so its fine.

Going to add my thoughts to this discourse.

The EB/AA/MoM meta is too tanky compared to everything else, i'll give you that easy, but this is NOT the way to go about fixing it.

One thing that is important for a game is Clarity. Being able to understand what something does just by the description and visual clues that are present.

The "Clarity" for the new EB is just fantastically bad. So complex with so many different interactions. PoE is already suffering under the weight of it's complexity. Don't compound the issue with this change.

"

Aziraphale wrote:

Going to add my thoughts to this discourse.

The EB/AA/MoM meta is too tanky compared to everything else, i'll give you that easy, but this is NOT the way to go about fixing it.

One thing that is important for a game is Clarity. Being able to understand what something does just by the description and visual clues that are present.

The "Clarity" for the new EB is just fantastically bad. So complex with so many different interactions. PoE is already suffering under the weight of it's complexity. Don't compound the issue with this change.

This is a fair post.

I agree it's getting overly complicated, though i enjoy that a lot, i can see other people being completely turned off by it.

One thing to note that people seem to not be considering at all.

With this change you can alternate between ES source and mana source for casting things.

I follow this thread a lot and i see all of this "i use EB to sustain cyclone and i will no longer be able to do that"

That's just flat out not true.

You get zealoths oath, a minor 2/3% life regen and maybe some life regeneration on gear, then complement your now lower mana pool with some regen.

Now you are draining ES for cyclone, then what that runs dry, you cyclone on mana, then what you get the cost back on ES you utilize that source again, while mana recharges on the mana pool etc etc etc

Basically you are splitting the cost of the skill over a double source that both can recharge independently of one another.

It's just different, more interesting in my opinion, but definitely not broken.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : another thing to note is that melee can much easier get life regen% + zealoths oath and base ES then they can gain base mana. allowing full mana allocation for aura's and cast's of ES.

I don't really see what is so confusing about this?

this is how EB should have always worked..
they made a mistake implementing it and are now going about fixing it which is awesome.

CI = you are immune to chaos dmg. your health is DELETED (does not become es)(more point bonus behind required)(no life modifiers apply to this es)

BM = Your mana is DELETED you can cast with life (1 more point for good reserve bonus required)(no mana modifiers apply to your "lifemana")

VP = you get 100% leech rate at ONLY 40% effectiveness, also life regen is DELETED completely.

EB Currently = your es becomes mana, all es and mana modifiers apply to this bonus. for both es already bonus converted and es turned into mana then bonus converted. mana regen applies to all es and mana.

hrmmmm.

its not hard to see that powerful keystones like this have drawbacks eldritch battery does not currently have. you sacrifice something for something else in all these cases.
With eldritch battery being CLEARLY lower risk higher reward then any of these examples.



PROCEEEED WITH THE CHLORAPHYLL.. RIGHT.

"

Splift wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Splift wrote:

They said the reason they are considering this change is because (among other reasons) its hard to balance between EB and non eb especially when nealy 100% of life casters take eb.

sry but thats ridiculous. You just cut down what eb does by removing es and applying 50% of it to mana and then boost mana regen and % mana on the tree so that eb casters end up in exactly the same spot but non eb casters end up with much more mana and mana regen hence closig the gap between them. Thats the simple, obvious, any idiot can see it way to do it that doesnt destroy tons of builds and introduce the most retardedly complex and baffling mechanic set to date.

Wow your such a genius, not.

A mechanic like this tends to be either 100% nessesary or 100% useless. wearing all that es gear for half the effect is like taking acrobatics and EB together now.... except you dont get dodge %.

All that would do is make it so all casters DONT use EB instead of all casters taking EB.

sry youre just talking nonsense.

you say this is trying to balance between eb and non eb, I explain a very easy way to close the gap between eb and non eb then you turn around and say eb is either 100% you take it or not so if you balance between them then no one will take it? Wearing all that es gear to get extra mana and mana regen is what eb does, if theres effectiveness on it or not is completely irrelevant if it does what you need it to do, if its giving too much compared to not having it then you buff the base amount non users have and cut down the extra buff taking it gives you which makes it more balanced. That is so painfully obvious.

youre not even talking on a level someone can have a conversation with, theres no logic in what you are saying.

"

Aziraphale wrote:

The EB/AA/MoM meta is too tanky compared to everything else

it really isnt at all, ~I worry about people who say this tbh.

"

Tom94 wrote:

I'm currently using Cyclone via my mana and this change would completely kill the viability of it since Cyclone requires a _lot_ of it and in my build mana leech is not an option.

In general cyclone's mana cost should be reduced by a lot.


This change would be sadly affecting ALL high mana drain builds which are not AA/MoM.

Some mods from mana should totally apply to ES too if this change is made. Increased mana should apply to ES (since otherwise the ES gain would be super low unless you actually invest in ES nodes which would be far too weak for this in their current state) and permanent regeneration is another thing that should be looked at.


All in all I think too much weird things would be required to make this work satisfactorily, doesn't seem like such a good idea.

You can run cyclone on mana on a 6 link with 0 mana costs with the right tree and items.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Aziraphale wrote:

The EB/AA/MoM meta is too tanky compared to everything else

it really isnt at all, ~I worry about people who say this tbh.

This x1000. Sure, you might have a huge Life pool for one hit, but your other defenses are sorely lacking, and you're losing at least 1-2 auras. In reality, that means you die far more often than if you had Acrobatics, for example.

And as I said before, that "max effective life" might get actually HIGHER now, making it even more quirky.

This may or may not harm MoM users, but it WILL harm Mana-based Casters, BADLY. Or make us skip EB altogether, and hope the re-balanced mana costs will be enough... Certainly won't often see things like my EB+Acro chars.