General Discussion - A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on - Forum

" Splift wrote: " CantripN wrote: The day casters get a fairly simple and easy way to regain mana, like Attackers get with a simple 2% Mana Leech on gear, we can let EB go. As is, the Mana Costs of spells (especially 5L+), coupled with the high gear/passive requirement to sustain skills, makes this unfair already. This is exactly the point that most people cannot understand. If EB didnt exist the way it did they could tune things down change how AA works etc. Balancing things with current EB in the picture is just fucked, eb will always win against non eb (usually) when we are talking about life casters. Quite true, but as they present it, I'm just better off not wasting my resources on taking EB at all. Having some ES is a great defense (Status Effects / Stun), even if it's a small amount, after all, and it's use for mana is niche (at best). [3.22] 💀The Grim Reaper💀 - Hexblast Poison Mines Assassin https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3347191 [3.22] ❄️⚡CantripN's Hadoken! - Lightning Conduit / Crackling Lance / Arc Permafreeze⚡❄️ www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3229590 Last edited by CantripN#4278 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:45:32 PM	Posted by CantripN#4278 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:45:05 PM Quote this Post
" Ashkatar wrote: " Splift wrote: Maybe you should educate yourself more. They said the reason they are considering this change is because (among other reasons) its hard to balance between EB and non eb especially when nealy 100% of life casters take eb. In other words its not just "change for the sake of change" You'r just spitting out random shit at this point. How many like,3-6-8 forum posts per half an hour? Again, if they were to do THIS, they need rebalance mana costs of like...60% of gems in the game? Totems, Traps, Spells, Buffs such as AA. Do you not think, that doing THIS CHANGE, and than having to rebalance ALL THAT will not cause further issues with BALANCE? They can't seem to figure out what they want to do with cod+aa, do you think they'll be able to feasibly do this last minute change off the top of their heads? You think beta testing for a month will help them with that? I'll tell you now, there i will be smart people out there, who will again find a way to make something with best way possible, that will be abusing this change, they will either abuse the fact that you'll be able to stack 2k-3kes on mana and use it for mom to give themselfs higher effective hp pool at the cost of picking up life regen and turning it into es regen, or there will be people doing AA in EVERY FUCKING BUILD because it's mana cost will (hue hue?) need to be reduced to account for this change? You'r telling me, i need to educate myself, but you yourself only seem to have a grasp of perhaps one or two builds out there, this change, will be, massive, do you understand? it's bigger than jewels in the skill tree. And it's A CHANGE, that wants to bring balance, but will not because of the amount of things that will need to be changed. You said "change for the sake of change" and that is just plain wrong, many reasons came right from the devs mouths. charlovers like you are just afraid of change.	Posted by Splift#4377 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:46:44 PM Quote this Post
" CantripN wrote: " Splift wrote: " CantripN wrote: The day casters get a fairly simple and easy way to regain mana, like Attackers get with a simple 2% Mana Leech on gear, we can let EB go. As is, the Mana Costs of spells (especially 5L+), coupled with the high gear/passive requirement to sustain skills, makes this unfair already. This is exactly the point that most people cannot understand. If EB didnt exist the way it did they could tune things down change how AA works etc. Balancing things with current EB in the picture is just fucked, eb will always win against non eb (usually) when we are talking about life casters. Quite true, but as they present it, I'm just better off not wasting my resources on taking EB at all. Having some ES is a great defense (Status Effects / Stun), even if it's a small amount, after all, and it's use for mana is niche (at best). I agree, they way they have said it in the OP sucks but they have said that obvously other things need to be looked at like perhaps adding a multiplicative bonus of energy shield on the node or base regen, along with whatever other re tuning. Last edited by Splift#4377 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:50:57 PM	Posted by Splift#4377 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:48:57 PM Quote this Post
I'm currently using Cyclone via my mana and this change would completely kill the viability of it since Cyclone requires a _lot_ of it and in my build mana leech is not an option. In general cyclone's mana cost should be reduced by a lot. This change would be sadly affecting ALL high mana drain builds which are not AA/MoM. Some mods from mana should totally apply to ES too if this change is made. Increased mana should apply to ES (since otherwise the ES gain would be super low unless you actually invest in ES nodes which would be far too weak for this in their current state) and permanent regeneration is another thing that should be looked at. All in all I think too much weird things would be required to make this work satisfactorily, doesn't seem like such a good idea. IGN: Pirteloli Last edited by Tom94#4433 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:57:37 PM	Posted by Tom94#4433 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:51:10 PM Quote this Post
So long as the display of the ES is only moved to the mana globe when Eldritch Battery is taken, that's fine with me. If it is a general change, it would really suck for CI characters, who'd have to look at what is for all purposes their health in a different spot than non-CI characters; The current setup has the advantage that regardless of which of your characters you are playing on, you see your health in the same general area.	Posted by Pi2rEpsilon#4367 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:53:38 PM Quote this Post
lol.. your es will only move from life to mana if you take eb.. and move the es to mana. this thread has gotten extremely confusing. I am FOR this change. I want to see it tested, I want to see it fine tuned I want to see it implemented. But this thread has just become a jumbled mess of misinformation and confusion. do what you want to the girl, but leave me alone.	Posted by GDSLICK#3097 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:56:28 PM Quote this Post
" GDSLICK wrote: lol.. your es will only move from life to mana if you take eb.. and move the es to mana. this thread has gotten extremely confusing. I am FOR this change. I want to see it tested, I want to see it fine tuned I want to see it implemented. But this thread has just become a jumbled mess of misinformation and confusion. This times 1000 obv it does sound like a straight up nerf at first glance and some ppl get angered by that, some people fear nerfs. Lets see what they actually come up with before you go on a witch hunt.	Posted by Splift#4377 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:58:47 PM Quote this Post
" Splift wrote: They said the reason they are considering this change is because (among other reasons) its hard to balance between EB and non eb especially when nealy 100% of life casters take eb. sry but thats ridiculous. You just cut down what eb does by removing es and applying 50% of it to mana and then boost mana regen and % mana on the tree so that eb casters end up in exactly the same spot but non eb casters end up with much more mana and mana regen hence closig the gap between them. Thats the simple, obvious, any idiot can see it way to do it that doesnt destroy tons of builds and introduce the most retardedly complex and baffling mechanic set to date. So why not just do that? Because they like fiddling and playing around, theyre having fun over there playing with this, a simple, obvious, less harmful solution is boring and doesnt let them tinker around playing with their toy game. I agree with shags " Shagsbeard wrote: I was a player and fan of Magic the Gathering. It was a great game. I quit playing all together after Ice Age came out because the game seemed to be changing the rules simply for the sake of changing the rules. The players were being played. I'm getting that feeling about how PoE is being developed too. We're going to get tired of it. All this "well the idea is really over complicated and destroys way too much so if we add multiplicative bonuses and some sort of flat regen and make it even more complex and bewildering...." Just stop, for goodness sake just stop, theres such easy solutions if that is the problem they are trying to solve that its truly ridiculous that they ever pushed this idea as far as its got. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)	Posted by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Apr 18, 2015, 1:59:50 PM Quote this Post
My suggestion: Have both keystones present on passive tree, one with this change and the other right behind it for what we have currently. Something like this - Eldritch Battery I - Have your Energy Shield move to Mana side and work as Mana with benefits of Energy Shield stats/passives. Then a keystone right behind it: Eldritch Battery II - Have your Energy Shield completely convert to Mana and receive benefits of Mana stats/passives. This way, it won't mess with a whole lot of builds and the option would be present for people interested in the new change. It also adds a minor nerf because EBII would require you to spend an extra passive point. What do you guys think? Personally I'm against the removal of how current EB behaves, but at the same time, I do want to check out some build possibilities with this new change. So why not give both?	Posted by FierceAgent#0799 on Apr 18, 2015, 2:00:13 PM Quote this Post
" Splift wrote: obv it does sound like a straight up nerf at first glance and some ppl get angered by that, some people fear nerfs. yeah, some people do, and some people also know a terrible idea when they see it. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)	Posted by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Apr 18, 2015, 2:02:04 PM Quote this Post