Legacy items

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Fruz wrote:

Geat realistic, trading does nothing if you don't have base items to start flipping = you need to grind, that's not even questionable tbh.
Of course you get more wealth by trading because you basically profit from player not having very good knowledge of the market, but first you need to grind ( and if you don't like trading, you need to grind much much more, granted of course ).

Now, group play facilitates the thing a lot ( too much imho ), that's true, it's much more hardcore for solo players.

A casual gamer will be miles away from being able to get what a player spending 30 hours/week can get if he plays the game well ( and partying, without partying, this won't be a huge amount of wealth at all, still end game quite accessible, this is basically why this game has not been designed for casual players.
Ff they want to be efficient in maps and have a good build, they'll need to spend a lot of time learning all the mechanism and build their character, and even though most of them won't even reach lvl 70+ maps on their own.


Throw a brand new player in PoE and tell him "let's meet at level 80", without helping him.
It will takes him a big amount of time to reach that point, and he will most likely have died many many times and have a messed up build, where he'll probably need to start over ( this is true for let's say 90% of the population maybe ) if he wants to go further.

I was very realistic, I covered trading only, grinding only and doing both.
Regardless, it is COMPLETELY possible and even probable to grow wealth from nothing more than the marauder quest that gives Red. Mana gem, in a new league. I'm pretty sure many will have done little more than this as far as content is concerned.

You mention time investment, again, but miss the point.
Of course more time will always produce more than less time, when time is the only variable.

But, one can spend 16 hours every single day in game, solo-self found doing nothing more than killing monsters and have less wealth, worse gear, less access to crafting, less access to map content and be lower level ultimately than someone playing 2 hours per day the way GGG expect and encourage, that being 6 man party mapping, trading for gear, exchanging orbs and utilising the forum and 3rd party trading tools passively while not in game.

Those are two extremes, but demonstrate, while not disputing time will be a factor in comparing 2 similar players, it is the variable of least impact when comparing the vastly different playstyles.

One of those two examples is truly playing hardcore in many senses, the other extremely casual in many senses. Even putting aside personal hardcore definitions and looking purely at time, we see the casual investment being far more rewarding than the hardcore, because of the other variables.

Now, to address the personal hardcore definitions in the other variables, no way, no how, do I, personally see any of the intended ways to play as remotely hardcore.

I think it's laughable that GGG attempted to pass off the game as remotely hardcore when the most beneficial part of it is shopping and the 2nd most beneficial is faceroll 6 manning in almost complete safety.

^ There is actually a big part of trading to make that wealth that I know has been used to good measure and have done so frequently myself.


Early open beta I ran a culling magic finder on my primary account. That resulted in me often getting invited to the mapping parties of my friends at no personal cost to myself... but that wasn't the problem. Ya, this got me a great deal of wealth for free but there is something worse that resulted from this.


By late open beta I had managed to accumulate a good deal of wealth as a result of getting invited to maps for free often and farming the level 68 lunaris 3 floor with the rest of my time (when I wasn't in a pure trading mood). I knew that with the legacy system that I would be safe in doing so and started doing everything possible to gather as many copies of uniques I expected to be nerfed at launch as I could.

So I spent everything I had to get stash tabs full of these items and shortly after launch found myself vastly richer then I could really expect to ever get with any other method in existence. By keeping ahead of the nerfs coming up I managed to buy cheap and then sell at a rather sizable markup.



Now with this IIQ nerf, I'm expecting to do the same with my surplus of gems and IIQ rares....

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Jiero wrote:

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By late open beta I had managed to accumulate a good deal of wealth as a result of getting invited to maps for free often and farming the level 68 lunaris 3 floor with the rest of my time (when I wasn't in a pure trading mood). I knew that with the legacy system that I would be safe in doing so and started doing everything possible to gather as many copies of uniques I expected to be nerfed at launch as I could.

So I spent everything I had to get stash tabs full of these items and shortly after launch found myself vastly richer then I could really expect to ever get with any other method in existence. By keeping ahead of the nerfs coming up I managed to buy cheap and then sell at a rather sizable markup.



Now with this IIQ nerf, I'm expecting to do the same with my surplus of gems and IIQ rares....

I thought you gave me everything oh.

I could patch up this game now and log in.
I could sell a legacy Kaom's.
I could sell a legacy Shav's.
I could sell 2 legacy Thunderfists.
I could sell a couple of BoR's.
Hell if we are talking hypothetically, why not include the 5 or 6 BoRs and TFs I've given away.
I could sell 8 or so Andvarius, Astramentus, Thief's T, several Dream Frags, etc etc.
I could sell Monte's Grasp.
I could sell a 6 link LG
I could sell 4 x 5 L LGs
I could sell a perfect 6L 50/40 Searing Touch.
I could sell 6 legacy Rainbows (and fuck knows how many of those I've given away)
I could sell, what, 10 Alphas?
I could likely off load a couple of hundred exalts worth of gear on top of the above, in minutes.

I could then take one of my lvl 94 chars and chain some 77/78s for a couple of weeks.
I could finally eternal ex a WiP wand, finish the gear sets on 4 characters so they would never want an upgrade. Finally 6L the witches chest.

Join a 6 man aurafest.

And be lvl 100 in no time on at least one character.

I would probably, with the time I've invested, be a full on hardcore gamer in GGG's estimations, then.

The thing is, I could have done this (to a lesser extent, of course) 10 months ago.

Whether I did it then, or now, I'd have been/will be bored immediately after and quit.
I wouldn't feel I'd accomplished anything.
I'd feel like I just trivialised a potentially good game.

But that is what I am expected to do.

You know, you could do all that probably because you spend 10 * much more times than most of the players.
If I had your playtime, I'd probably follow the same guidelines because I would play the game how I'd like it to, like now.

So yeah, maybe this game is not fit for someone who spends 50+ hours a week playing it on the long term, but you know what ? That's because it's a RPG game, PvE oriented.

Only PvP games can be "used" to play as a pro-gamer on the long term because you always face something else than an A.I. that you are getting used to fight, that's why Starcraft is the reference for hardcore gaming as an example, as you obviously know.

So if your vision of this game is that it's casual oriented because for you anyone spending at least 20~25 hours a week playing is casual, then yes, it's be the case.
But actually, someone playing more than 25+ hours a week regularly on a game is not a casual, it's where it starts getting hardcore.


And no, I don't follow you every day h24 to know your playtime, those are just estimations from the little I saw, maybe I'm partly wrong, but you got the point.


In PoE, you don't reach the top by normal mean ( <=> no RMT ) by playing casually, not at all.

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Fruz wrote:

In PoE, you don't reach the top by normal mean ( <=> no RMT ) by playing casually, not at all.

except I can name at least a couple top-30 ladder players, who have roughly my playtime.
that's 1/4 of Anuhart's playtime.
and while Anuhart spent many days bot-running Piety and Dominus Merciless, each time RNG screwed him out of maps, these guys just keep chaining high maps ftw.
they don't remember when was the last time they farmed Piety or any other "normal" content.

now add RMT to the mix, and you can probably cut that playtime by an additional half, and get the same result.
not to mention need not start playing at January 2013 or Closed Beta.
banhammer? when was the last time GGG banned someone from the top of the ladder?

and I said nothing yet, about multi-boxing, forbidden macros, map-hacks and other stuff far more wide-spread than they should be.

cheating fucking pays in this game.
going "trade simulator" instead of aRPG, pays in this game. especially inter-league.
and while once I was naive enough to think, maybe this is a by-product of design mistakes - now I am confident, this is completely by design. all of it.
and you know what? it fucking disgusts me.

suddenly, the claims about Chris running an RMT service for D2 to get initial funding for PoE, don't seem as far-fetched, as I thought them to be when I read it here of the forum.
inb4 "removed by admin".

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johnKeys wrote:

suddenly, the claims about Chris running an RMT service for D2 to get initial funding for PoE, don't seem as far-fetched, as I thought them to be when I read it here of the forum.
inb4 "removed by admin".

Now isn't that some interesting info. It all makes sense now why GGG allows the legacy-hoarding RMT to turn this game into their own personal cash cow on the backs of new players. What a fucking sham.

^How interesting. That explains all those bots protecting legacy everywhere on the forum 24/7.

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johnKeys wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

In PoE, you don't reach the top by normal mean ( <=> no RMT ) by playing casually, not at all.

except I can name at least a couple top-30 ladder players, who have roughly my playtime.
that's 1/4 of Anuhart's playtime.

1/4 of Anuhart's playtime = casual gaming for you ?
hmmm ... sorry but no, I don't know Anuhart's exact average playtime, but it seems that 1/4 is still (much) more than.
top 30 players are not playing PoE casually ...
Of course they have probably not been farming Piety for a while, why would they ???
The game is more punishing for solo players because GGG wants to encourage group play, there is nothing new about that.


If this game disgusts you at the end, why are you still there ?
Finding stuff in PoE is meant to be difficult, that obviously encourages trading, there is nothing new with that either. That should become less tedious when the new system will be ready to get live btw.

I'm just going to point out how retarded you GGG shamers saying they support RMT with legacy items when they don't fucking exist in ladder or any future ladder.

Holy shit.