Remember the CB plan. The game developed in the opposite direction

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

mazul wrote:

Game should not be balanced around races.

Game should be balanced around endgame first and foremost.

Doesn't this strike you as even slightly egotistical?

What's the point of having races if they're not balanced? What's the point of having endgame if it's not balanced? Obviously all forms of balance are important. But let's not pretend that just because you enjoy a particular game mode more than some other mode that GGG should only be attention to yours.

It's kind of like the "Blizzard should only balance for Code S in the GSL" argument regarding SC2, which simultaneously has merit and has resulted in an exodus of players from that game.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

mazul wrote:

Game should not be balanced around races.

Game should be balanced around endgame first and foremost.

Doesn't this strike you as even slightly egotistical?

What's the point of having races if they're not balanced? What's the point of having endgame if it's not balanced? Obviously all forms of balance are important. But let's not pretend that just because you enjoy a particular game mode more than some other mode that GGG should only be attention to yours.

The thing with the races though is that they are impossible to balance in the short term they exist without making every class and path pretty much the exact same thing. There will always be variants in power and speed at any given point and those differences make the decision on if you win or lose (along with rng). So unless they give every single person the exact same setup and eliminate ALL rng matters in the game then at no point can a race ever be balanced in any regard. It will always come down to using the same race build and pray that you have better rng then the next person.

They need to have their own complete set of rules that get rid of pretty much most differences and all rng essentially.... something in complete contrast to pvp and pve (who are again different from each other).



Race, PVP and pve all need to be completely self absorbed and designed entirely different from each other with very little overlapping changes being applied. Otherwise those differences in nature will make it so fixing one thing will break two other things.

Remove the standard quest races, everybody is sick of them. Replace them with things like Descent champs / new stuff. There, easier balance.

"

syrioforel wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

mazul wrote:

Game should not be balanced around races.

Game should be balanced around endgame first and foremost.

Doesn't this strike you as even slightly egotistical?

What's the point of having races if they're not balanced? What's the point of having endgame if it's not balanced? Obviously all forms of balance are important. But let's not pretend that just because you enjoy a particular game mode more than some other mode that GGG should only be attention to yours.

It's kind of like the "Blizzard should only balance for Code S in the GSL" argument regarding SC2, which simultaneously has merit and has resulted in an exodus of players from that game.

No that's not even remotely close. Balancing in a RTS vs Balancing in a RPG is totally different. Balancing in a RTS is difficult because any changes you make will likely affect all stages of the game. You can easily balance a RPGs end game literally without touching the early game.

"

morbo wrote:

Remove the standard quest races, everybody is sick of them. Replace them with things like Descent champs / new stuff. There, easier balance.

Or make a PoE-themed DotA mod with fixed characters as it was suggested already, I can practically guarantee it will be played more than any half-baked PvP attempt.

Kaom, Voll and Ondar vs Maligaro, Shavronne and Brutus... sounds like a good match.

I'm not really a huge fan of the genre but why not take breather now and then.

I do miss CB mostly because I feel there were fewer damage spikes and less grinding. You could go straight to vaal, grinding in fellshrine until ready for maps, kill vaal then jump right into mapping. Now I feel I need to stop in act 2 merc to grind for vaal, kill vaal, act 3 push as far as I can, sometimes I make docks, sometimes I can't. Then I work towards peity, grind for peity and kill her once ready for maps. There's 2-3 more stages of grinding nevermind the damage spikes in maps periods where just nothing is happen and suddenly you're running for your life or being one shot by a boss. I think they went to trying to surprise HC players rather than make a smooth playing experience in CB.

As for the individual points.

Large chests - I've personally explained this to you a few times hillbert, it was bot fodder. Hex was able to make 1 pure ex a day, probably 5-6 gcp on top of that as well just running cave during CB. He's human, doing it manually. A bot running that is much worse than them running ledge. D3 understood this quickly and took out easy to access large chests too.

Like I've said before, I think they should either be stationary like they were with our current drops (absolute garbage) or random with previous drops. The double nerf makes no sense, might as well remove them from the game. Also why the fuck aren't they in maps too?

Killspeed - it got slowed down because look at how people are producing mirror worthy items. If you don't prepare for 50k RT DPS but balance around self found, this loot game becomes pointless once you find good loot. I agree it might be slightly out of whack now but there needed to be change here.

Vendor recipes - Another I've explained. I was personally making 30-100 alchs a day, some people were making 10-30 regals a day, this is a problem. You miss it because you didn't abuse it but if it were still possible all these people doing nothing but farming would flood the game with these orbs. It needed to go.

Uniques - I hate the unique drop rate shit. If a unique is too powerful for it's level bump the level, don't gate it so it's impossible to find. It use to be awesome finding an andy during a 3h race. I've had good luck finding andys actually, 5-6 since OB started, since the change nothing. Feels like another artificial divide between rich and poor. Poor people can't afford to run maps that high then those richer people are rewarded with the most expensive uniques in the game. I understand the choice, this way you don't have someone farming peity getting richer than someone doing maps but I feel this change was sloppy. Everyone is punished as mappers aren't really rewarded.

Phaserun - I have always prefered QSs. I always make my builds so I don't need flasks anymore but I try to never have a wasted gem slot. Most of the time in CB I wasn't using phaserun but in OB+ I've always made room for a QS.

Stone hammer recipe - Agree, it doesn't make sense and does little to help people who are doing maps.

Cutthroat league - I'm amazed they haven't even done a 1 week cutthroat. I've heard them say that they don't think a permanent or semipermanent league would work but seems like you should test 1 week at least. I was expecting more 1 weeks like the res penalty change one. Test out large changes before added but they did it the one time and never since. I wish they did it for chaos res ffs.


That said, I still love the game. I play it because I like testing builds, seeing how far I can take an unknown build that no one else is using. Also I'm a gambler at heart so the crafting system and orbs are no different to me than sitting down to play poker. Long periods of nothing or losing with a few big wins mixed in. I use to play online poker just as long but at least after a bad day of POE I didn't lose money.

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

Rose tinted glasses are awesome!

1. Phaserun was OP'd. It was a good change
2. Good items were never guaranteed from chests.

Turning phase into a potion made it even worse. If your character was strong enough to kill monsters quickly you could run faster, clear packs faster. It was another arbitrary gear check. If you can kill fast enough, you suddenly move faster to kill faster and it snowballs from there.

Phase run helped weak characters too.



imo they should have removed the MS bonus from phase and made it innate to every character like the 2012 boots change in LoL

Phase run now would be insane with the melee buff.

Vendor recipes are still easy to abuse in standard and HC, where helper still functions. I abused the shit out of the recipe.

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Phase run now would be insane with the melee buff.

Vendor recipes are still easy to abuse in standard and HC, where helper still functions. I abused the shit out of the recipe.

Adapting to the changes I'm producing way more. If I did this stuff during CB I could have made 40-60 alchs a week just mapping. MFing, jesus, I PMed Chris about this being changed a few times and I don't regret it at all. It was highly abusive.

We do need more vendor recipes though.

"

Moosifer wrote:

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Phase run now would be insane with the melee buff.

Vendor recipes are still easy to abuse in standard and HC, where helper still functions. I abused the shit out of the recipe.

Adapting to the changes I'm producing way more. If I did this stuff during CB I could have made 40-60 alchs a week just mapping. MFing, jesus, I PMed Chris about this being changed a few times and I don't regret it at all. It was highly abusive.

We do need more vendor recipes though.

I really don't complain about vendor recipies. They add some or at least one with every patch, which is fine. However some currencies are still a bit isolated from others. And I agree the chisel-recipe is questionable. It kinda make sense to use a hammer, but hammers are incredible large. You propably just make a character at the right level and check vendors for hammers. If I do maps I won't really pick up hammers, because I don't have enough space to carry everything already. So this would just mean that instead of carrying out rares I would drop them in favor of a white stone hammer, just because it is worth a chisel basically and I don't want to waste time getting them from elsewhere... it's just a strange decision.

I agree on Phase-Run. However the problem with Phase-Run was that it basically was considered mandatory. However it is almost the same with Quicksilver or Granite Flasks. A quick boost of movement-speed is something you really want to have in certain situations. However having both a skill and a flask would propably be better since it would actually allow for a decision. The other boni Phase-Run granted would be propably OP in the current state.

"

Like I've said before, I think they should either be stationary like they were with our current drops (absolute garbage) or random with previous drops. The double nerf makes no sense, might as well remove them from the game. Also why the fuck aren't they in maps too?

Yeah I agree a bit. However the reason why they aren't in maps is that this could propably be a map-mod. But than I don't feel excited about large chests anyway. They are just there. Actually I'm often kinda angry exspecially in races, because it means that I walked in the wrong direction and large chests are often a bit off from the normal way through a certain area.