This policy is a reason why the game will always be rigged with RMT and illegal Crosstrades

"

deteego wrote:

And as a side point, people stop giving a s*** about an economy if they see its harming the game, and at this point, they really don't give a s*** if the actions they are doing will harm the economy, because simply put, they don't care about it.

If someone made a law that banned eating tomatoes, and someone thought that was a shitty law and started to proceed to eat tomatoes, they really aren't going to care that they are breaking the law.

Its GGG's own fault for either trying to implement an economy in a game that should have no concept of one, or just doing it incredibly badly to the point where it hurts self found progression too much. Blizzard had to learn the hard way, that punishing players for their own stupid design choices quickly gets nowhere, and just worsens the situation

QFT; The bottom line is people want to feel like they can play to win not have to trade to win or pay/rmt to win.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

That's only sane if there is a "good part" to fast forward to. As far as endgame PvE goes, that simply isn't true. (The only somewhat rational argument I can imagine is PvP.) Further, I think everyone involved knows this, deep down, that the grass isn't greener... so the question becomes, why are they lying to themselves? Why self-deception?

Hmmm, you know this is the exact reasoning most (self found/wannabe self found) people have why trading is bad and prefer to self find in aRPG loot finders.

Play the game, find the loot, progress slowly, encountering and defeating (or not) ever increasing challenges. We think that trading both diminishes the experience, removes the challenge and basically skips a lot of the game, ending up at a grass-is-not-greener point in the game, over-geared and no better off.

It's interesting that you see RMT in this light, yet not the free-trade system that PoE has.

That would mean Scrotie would have to agree that there are serious issues with the trading and economy system in Path of Exile and simply admit that GGG made a mistake in essentially forcing trade upon the players. If you want to have meaningful progression without having to invest a ridiculous amount of time self finding your gear, you basically have to trade.


And all this talk about enforcement of RMT rules is nonsense. If you remove the need to RMT, you kill off RMT. RMT in games like WoW is basically worthless due to the fact that Blizzard did everything in their power to kill off RMT with things like soulbinding, streamlining content, etc.

"

allbusiness wrote:

If you remove the need to RMT, you kill off RMT.

I fail to see how any system that allows player-to-player trading can ever "remove the need" of RMT.

There's RMT in 4 month ladder leagues. There's probably RMT in a one-week race.
The only places without RMT are places where players are not allowed to trade at all.

Enforcement is the only real way to minimize RMT and allow people to trade at all. It raises the cost too much for the RMTers. GGG has done quite a bit of enforcement, but as this thread shows, not nearly enough.

"

I fail to see how any system that allows player-to-player trading can ever "remove the need" of RMT.

RMT is a shortcut for content you can't access easily.
If you make this content common it has no value on the market therefore removing RMT.

RMT in CB was irrelevant because it was far easier to get maps.
You had extremly powerful receipes for crafting needs.
In fact the only thing I traded in CB were level 31 support gems for Chaos Orbs or other support gems.

"

There's probably RMT in a one-week race.

Yep there is.....
Maybe I should register the domain namingandshaming.com and show how many players would be banned if there would be proper enforcement.
I critisized 1 week results already in CB because there were several botterboard users in there but since they all were in one Party and other parties didn't use Fools gold it wasn't a big issue.

"

GGG has done quite a bit of enforcement, but as this thread shows, not nearly enough.

GGG bans spambots!
But Player to Player RMT really needs to be overdone to get some consequences.
For example the user who got banned for RMT almost 10 months too late made like around 3000$ with RMT.
He is powertrading for fools gold(he got a new account for RMTing) and sold fools gold on a third party site or was directly selling on another RMT site.


His partner in crime still isn't banned.

I can't find a logical reason to have such an easygoing policy on Fools Gold.

Does GGG believe some streamers are good advertisement? Several high tier streamers only got like 20-200 spetators.
I think an article regarding non taken actions would have a far bigger impact than keeping this small advertisement effect.

Famous streamers don't stick to one game. They switch games really often or get famous with let's plays.

In fact RMT even gives a false view of high tier endgame play because maps are RMTed via Fools Gold.

MTX also can't be a valid excuse because RMTers use popular MTX 5-20$ at best.
They certainly don't use 100$+ MTX.

"

Hilbert wrote:

RMT is a shortcut for content you can't access easily.
If you make this content common it has no value on the market therefore removing RMT.

If you make all the game content coming, you make the game boring and not rewardful => you kill it ( definitely for people who where supposed to play originally, it's a good thing that this will never happen ).

"

pneuma wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

If you remove the need to RMT, you kill off RMT.

I fail to see how any system that allows player-to-player trading can ever "remove the need" of RMT.

There's RMT in 4 month ladder leagues. There's probably RMT in a one-week race.
The only places without RMT are places where players are not allowed to trade at all.

Enforcement is the only real way to minimize RMT and allow people to trade at all. It raises the cost too much for the RMTers. GGG has done quite a bit of enforcement, but as this thread shows, not nearly enough.

Did you even read what I just posted?


RMT is basically worthless in games like WoW. Why? Because there is meaningful progression without the need to actually RMT. If players are not compelled to RMT, there will be minimal levels of it happening. The reason why RMT is so rampant in games like Path of Exile is because of the very fact that the whole game is based on RNG and gear checks, along with a massive time investment. For players that have minimal time (1-2 hours a day to play games), this is not an option. So if they like the game, but want to progress, they are more than likely to RMT, as these are the same people who have disposable income to spend on virtual items.

Enforcement is not the only real way to RMT. Lots of MMOS completely minimize RMT to the point that it is absolutely trivial to RMT. Enforcement will do jack shit if your game is rampant with game systems that essentially encourage RMT. It's like saying 'well, enforcement is the only way to stop hacking, even though I left a giant fucking loophole in the programming to allow people to hack easily.'

The problem is that you and Hilbert are just simply trying to circumvent the real issue. RMT only exists because GGG has created the demand for it with their atrocious game systems. It can only thrive if the developer creates a system that makes it viable to RMT.


Do you see any kind of RMTing going on in Marvel Heroes? Hardly any. Why? Because it's fucking stupid to waste that much money on something you can get done in a week. And honestly, if you can't see why Path of Exile encourages so much RMT, you can just look at the differences between World of Warcraft and Lineage 2. One has rampant RMT that is pay to win. The other has minimal amounts going on, with hardly any enforcement compared to the general population. It's pretty easy to tell which one is going to have more, simply based on how much time you have to invest.

"

allbusiness wrote:

[...]

GGG chose to give really hard/time consuming objectives for those who wants and decided not to give access the the whole content to anyone with ease, deal with it.

Coparing WoW and PoE is meaningless, the games are way too different to have a useful comparison here.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

[...]

GGG chose to give really hard/time consuming objectives for those who wants and decided not to give access the the whole content to anyone with ease, deal with it.

Coparing WoW and PoE is meaningless, the games are way too different to have a useful comparison here.

Then you're going to have to deal with RMT. You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to have a rigid cut throat environment, guess what, people are going to metagame and be even more cut throat, and look for literally every single advantage that they can get.

Why do you think hacking is so prevalent in competitive shooters versus casual shooters? Because 'hardcore' promotes cutthroat behavior in people, thus sometimes causing them to hack/cheat/metagame the system.


Point is you can't bitch about the enforcement of RMT when the whole system essentially encourages you to RMT. I mean, GGG purposely hides recipe information so that if you happen to discover an awesome recipe (such as the 20% quality recipe that was hidden forever), you're gonna keep it to yourself so you can get rich off said recipe.

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

[...]

GGG chose to give really hard/time consuming objectives for those who wants and decided not to give access the the whole content to anyone with ease, deal with it.

Coparing WoW and PoE is meaningless, the games are way too different to have a useful comparison here.

Then you're going to have to deal with RMT. You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to have a rigid cut throat environment, guess what, people are going to metagame and be even more cut throat, and look for literally every single advantage that they can get.

Why do you think hacking is so prevalent in competitive shooters versus casual shooters? Because 'hardcore' promotes cutthroat behavior in people, thus sometimes causing them to hack/cheat/metagame the system.


Point is you can't bitch about the enforcement of RMT when the whole system essentially encourages you to RMT. I mean, GGG purposely hides recipe information so that if you happen to discover an awesome recipe (such as the 20% quality recipe that was hidden forever), you're gonna keep it to yourself so you can get rich off said recipe.

Precisely, the game is designed in such a way that it encourages RMT

So in other words, GGG and the players have to deal with it and its consequences. If GGG wanted RMT to be less of a consequence, they should have made the game less trade/economy reliant

"

allbusiness wrote:

Then you're going to have to deal with RMT

I'm not really dealing with anything like that tbh, people live their lives, play their chars, and I play mine, period.
Yes this will have some impact on the global economy, but not a meaningfull enough one that will keep me from getting one or two items when I need it ( on a non self found char of course ).
I will never really understand why people feel this need to compare permanently themselve to others I guess ....