Top Reasons I Like Trading, an Economy, and am Sick of Economy Hate Threads

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DaveSW wrote:

I very much agree with OP. A self found league would ruin the game, as would any other attempt to make the rarest items more common.

Trading makes everything common

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Twister0258 wrote:

Here is my top list of what is GOOD about trading and the economy. I am tired of all these SFL troll threads and economy hates posts. The simple truth is there are some very sophisticated factors most of these posters overlook.

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

2. Trading adds a high layer of complexity to an otherwise mindless, skillless game. The simple truth is that while the game is highly complex relative to its peers, an economy is key for adding depth and skill. Because the game is big, understanding the economy and keeping current is tough! It lets those who are sophisticated gain an edge through knowledge. A binded SFL game becomes ideal for mindless, easy play. But that's the d3 market, not POE crowd. In fact, a SFL POE is less complex than a non bind D3

3. Trading mitigates the luck factor of a bad RNG streak. Although related to pts #1 and 2, , it's key to remember that trading gives you the flexibility to have what you want, even if drops don't fall your way. The normal counter to this is a request to juice the RNG, a very short sighted demand indeed

You do realize trading makes it easier to geared up than through rng? If you're worried about lifespan, you'd want less trading as trading is the single fastest way to gear up. The reason D3 became terminal was because of the AH, which made it even easier to trade than in POE.

Adding a SFL would increase the lifespan of the game as people would spend more time farming to find optimal gear. Trading allows people to get optimal gear in a much shorter period of time.

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gr00grams wrote:

Out of all the arpg's I've played with ladders, they were solely based on level.
Is this ones' different?

I'll be honest, I'm older now, and could give a monkeys-arse who the top of a ladder is ha, so that is part of my stance.

I don't care about players trading, don't care about really anything they do in a game like this as there is absolutely zero competition from how I see it.

Idk. A cut-throat league no idea what that is, but I really don't care, if you want the honest truth. I enjoy arpg's for making builds and watching them become what I envisioned. The rest is irrelevant. I don't really trade much, because once they get said gear etc, the builds reach the end of their shelf-life, so I try to get more out of them by not trading.

Fair enough, I get the enjoyment of trying out quirky builds other than the norm and see how they work out, but if there was no competitive spirit in this game, leagues and races wouldn't need to exist at all tbh. Being older as well, I could simply whip out the CC and climb to the top if I was THAT arsed about it, but I'm not lol (I'd rather have a league where I could attempt it without such externalities). I don't want to make it out to more than needs to be, it's simply something I would enjoy, which I realize is entirely subjective. Frankly, I'd rather play a strategy game if all competitive aspects were stripped from PoE, but that's just me.

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DaveSW wrote:

I very much agree with OP. A self found league would ruin the game, as would any other attempt to make the rarest items more common.

Why would an optional league ruin the game? What if they left drop rates alone?

Trading is fine but we need a way to search items, less than 10% of the players know of the shop thread indexer site so your market for sales is much smaller than it should be, trade chat needs an anti-spam feature of say 1 message every 3 mins so people can actually see it, trying to sell or buy something gets washed away in .2 secs by the guys spamming their same message 10 times a min.

The economy though is garbage because of 100 dif currencies with no fixed rates, right now chaos are near worthless, i didnt play for a week and a half and come back to a 37 and growing chaos exchange for exalt, you cant even buy good items anymore with chaos and people wont take them due to their landslide in value that has no end in sight, trying all day to buy a 20/20 multistrike gem and no one will take chaos, so i have 200+ chaos in my stash that are just going to collect dust, trying to exchange them for exalts in trade chat like the other 2000 people spamming for exalts is a huge waste of time.

The fact that the leagues have to be reset every couple months just proves that the poe economy is flawed and has serious issues.

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Why would an optional league ruin the game? What if they left drop rates alone?

Have you ever tried playing poe SF? the game is so ridiculously punishing even by the mid stages of merciless and you can pretty much ignore high level maps until youve farmed piety for about 4 months.

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Nephalim wrote:

Have you ever tried playing poe SF? the game is so ridiculously punishing even by the mid stages of merciless and you can pretty much ignore high level maps until youve farmed piety for about 4 months.

I have to admit that I didn't get quite that far... made it to start of Act 2 Merciless before switching to another character (this game gives me alt-itis) which is now legacy. Had more than one character up in Merciless hardcore that I just got bored with and wanted to try a new build (now playing Nemesis, they are sort of obsolete). I do play 100% SF though, just want to play with other like minded players. Don't mind if I have to farm and grind it out. Countless amounts of Baal runs have probably conditioned me to enjoy pug grinds. :D

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Twister0258 wrote:

Here is my top list of what is GOOD about trading and the economy. I am tired of all these SFL troll threads and economy hates posts. The simple truth is there are some very sophisticated factors most of these posters overlook.

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

Nobody demands an ultra loose RNG. Nobody demands anything here, except the occasional idiot who is gone as soon as he arrives. Is it really so hard to give the other side at least a little bit of credit?

What some people want - and this has been said countless times - is to make drops count, not trading. The thing is, if you don't trade you are incredibly limited in anything you do. You not only cannot expect to ever get some sort of build-enabling unique, you can also forget about using one if one does drop. Unless, of course, you spent dozens or hundreds of hours farming and vendoring rares to get the jewellers and the fusings, not only for that item but for anything else you need for that build.
If you do trade, however, you can make these builds in a fraction of the time.

Don't take D3 as an example. It seems Blizzard messed up where they could in that game. Take D2. In D2 you could play a char from Normal to Hell and find: Levelling uniques, "interesting" uniques, set items, decent rares, blues for crafting, various gems which you could upgrade, various runes which you could upgrade, potions for crafting better potions, gold for gambling and with lots of luck: BiS items.
Except for the BiS items everything dropped fairly regularly, you were constantly motivated because just around the corner something useful might drop. And it always felt as if a nice drop is yet another piece of the mosaic that was the whole D2 experience.

Here it is not so. You get happy when one of the elusive chaos orbs drops. But what does it do? You need dozens of them to have a remote chance of crafting something decent with them.
You have better chances with lesser orbs but there you need hundreds if not thousands. And again, only for a chance.
You get excited when an exalted drops. Seriously, fuck exalteds. Again, only for the the chance to add one good mod to an item, and a very low one at that. So you don't get excited because they are so incredibly useful. You get excited because they are currency and very rare.
And the list goes on.

In D2 grinding noticably payed off. BiS items were extremely rare and very good items rare enough, so if you had a strong char already you could play for a very long time until something exciting dopped. But there was always something.

Here you can easily hit that wall while not even having finished the game. Here you must stack MF or you can watch rare mobs repeatedly drop all whites and actbosses all blues.

So, as far as I can tell, most people complaining about the "necessity" to trade feel that without it PoE can become tedious and dull. If you do trade, however, you rob yourself of that great feeling when something good drops.
So what they want is a game in the middleground between a grinder-like "kill 50.000 boars to fulfill the quest" that PoE is now and what anti-SFLers think they want, i.e. getting showered in BiS items.

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iamstryker wrote:

You think the game is mindless but trading takes skill....

ok.....

No matter what you say to defend GGG, that more and more ppl are using 3rd party tool to trade is slapping GGG's face.

Economics is fine, trading is fine, the Method of Trading is a Joke. the trading channel is a joke of joke.