Thoughts on new CI

We might actually see HP/ES witches with Chaos resistance now.

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BurnOutBrighter wrote:

We might actually see HP/ES witches with Chaos resistance now.

We will definitly ;P

Why bother even getting ES. It's completely worthless now. CI will never be taken because it's suicidal. HP is the easier, better, safer route to go. Making the witch a terrible class to play, because going that far out of your way to get HP nodes when you can easily roll and mara/temp/ or even a shadow.

Well i used to think CI was OP but after patch notes im thinking it nerfed little bit too much Decreasing of % passive nodes and Es amount on gear would be enough we dont need that chaos resistance change now melee shadows gonna have bad time about what are they going to choose.
Once again melee suffers most from nerfs. As i said earlier simple es amount reduction would be enough.

Well i guess its what I expected in a way... witch casters will make way around it one way or the other. Shadows tho... might be RIP as it is. Hybrid being subpar in general, evasion nerfed in multiple ways (armor now = in value, indirectly, huge grace costs in terms or mana/dex and eva being gimp on its own), hp+es is simply not working without CI... guess RIP melee shadows unless u wanna run all the way to IR.

Guess I'll go templar AR/HP+some ES+EB for way better effect, and not needing dreamfragments/eye/getting scared of every puncture in game. Bye bye shadows, was fun while it lasted.

I usually don't like to talk about stuff on Alpha, and I have stayed away from these topics on beta forums as well, but seeing as patch notes have been released, I guess I can indulge myself for a while in a topic that is and has been very dear to me as quite an experienced character builder both in CI and also in HP. Considering how long I have refrained myself from posting in these sort of topics, I hope you forgive me for the inevitable deluge that is to come.

One thing I cannot stand is all this predictable outcry from CI haters claiming that this is great, this is balanced, when in fact you guys probably do not and have not had much experience playing CI nor have done the necessary calculations regarding how the new CI will be:

I will begin by listing a few things that CI has traditionally been weak at:

1. Status ailments
2. Prone to stuns

I will now list a few things that CI has traditionally been strong at:

1. Having a large "life" buffer, much larger than what HP builds can obtain

HP has strengths as well in that characters with high HP (4k and higher) very rarely get prolonged status ailments, are extremely stun-resistant and can regen in and out of combat.

The only "weakness" it ever had was that the community felt that having higher numbers was better (your e-peen is bigger than mine) and players felt that having 8K ES was superior than 4K HP and high regen for instance. I assure you, that is not the case. Have a look at these two videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGv-Ft7q2mI 9K ES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULdSwn9KsY4 HP with high regen

Now, let me ask you, which build looked safer to crawl around pyramids with?
Which build looked more likely to survive if being surrounded by mobs and stuck?
This was in beta with the old CI, and with my ES shadow's godlike ES gear.

Despite that, it is perhaps still arguable that CI in the past had higher effective HP (EHP from here-on) as compared with HP builds.

By EHP, I mean HP + HP regen + Flasks usage being EHP for HP builds versus CI's Max ES (ES doesn't regen in combat hence I'm not gonna talk much about ES regen)

Now, let us look at the new changes:

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Chris wrote:

Chaos Inoculation now grants no additional energy shield bonus. Its complete immunity to chaos damage, synergy with Blood Rage and other skill combos are deemed sufficient upside to counteract the life penalty.

Discipline: Mana cost increased by 40. Energy Shield granted significantly reduced.

The maximum flat energy shield that can be gained on an item has been reduced.

I won't go into detail and so that I can let you guys experience it for yourself and suffer accordingly.

But basically what this means that, whereas before where HP builds had lesser HP as compared to the ES that CI builds had? This now means that HP builds will have MORE HP than ES that CI builds have. Am I joking? No, I'm being serious.

Let's have a look at my ES Shadow with the godlike ES gear that took 2 or so months to accumulate and incidentally and which had ES which is unachievable now due to the reduction of ES mods on items. Here is an example of his gear:



His skill tree was Invalesco

He had 9.6K ES. However, without the bonus that CI gives now, he would have about 6K ES. Yes, 6K ES with gear that is no longer achievable. Gone were the days of 10K ES CI characters. 3K will be the norm now, 4K above average, and only the elites will reach 6K again.

Now, let's have a look at the recent 1 Week Race at how a mara caster did.

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Magnicon2 wrote:

Health - 6334. Health regen per sec - 565.5. Damage Reduction 36%. 80/62/51 resists without Purity. GMP FP listed DPS - 1011.1.

6.3k HP, 5x1K DPS on FP within a week versus 6k ES within 1-2 months? That is laughable.

Oh we haven't even thrown in Kaom's Heart yet. Imagine how much HP that build could get?

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Chris wrote:

There are now new item mods that go up to item level 77

New item mods too. Needless to say, I doubt they will benefit CI as compared to HP, such is the heap of unfair criticism that the beta community has heaped onto CI in recent months such that the devs had no choice but to listen and do what they felt was necessary.

So.. CI has Chaos Immunity. Big deal?

Let me ask you guys. How tough is it to stack ele resists right now? What makes you think stacking chaos resists will be tougher? Do all of you actually have suffixes on all your items, all of which ones that you actually need? If you say maxing chaos resists will be tougher, why on earth do you need to max chaos resists especially when they don't cause any status ailments?

If you can do fine with 0% chaos resist in beta now, why wouldn't you do well with 0% chaos resists in OB?

If you feel the need to max chaos resists, I'm sorry but it's just a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorder, it's not necessary. If however you manage to unwittingly get more than 20% chaos resists or so, congratulations, the game just got easier.

Not to say that this change didn't turn up any good things.

Pain attunement/low life builds have now gotten much more viable with chaos resistance mods.


I'll tell you what I feel is going to happen come OB. Let's name it Invalesco's Prophecy.

1. HC will be absolutely devoid of CI builds come the first 2 months or so
2. I daresay that CI melee/bow builds will still remain viable in default because of the bonus life leech from Blood Rage, although it will be harder to maintain a decent ES buffer.
3. Why would anyone want to go for a CI caster build now when you can do better with an Ironwill Mara Caster build?

Yes, you heard it here first. Iron Will Mara Casters are the new witches. Gone were the days when Hermione Granger and Harry Potter were the brightest students of Hogwarts. The big (all brawn no brain) fatties Crabbe and Goyle will rule the day now.

I will be honest, I am disheartened at the route this game is taking. As epsi says, this game is becoming one-dimensional and as much as I tried to deny it, the obvious is right in front of me now.

All CI builds will need to go for GR to survive. Life leech and Mana leech were once an option. No longer now, they are now a necessity, especially with how mana costs have gone up.

I love this game and that passion is reflected in most of my posts. I want this game to get better and more fun. My only fear now is that this game is taking a one-way road to boredom.

That's all. This will be my first and only post in this thread. Hope it has give you guys some food for thought. CI has become a very painful subject to me. Credit to those who read the entire thing.

You were on alpha to adress any problems.Doing otherwise means u havent done your job right

This comes from Ci/builder as me.What i see here is a wall of elitisism i dont get.Or do i get.The "invalesco build" became famous so now it classes with your interests.

You wre alright to say its weaknesses.I havent seen you talk about its powers.Thats where you are not objective.

You go ondetail saying that you have this "unattainable gear now".So you degrade the game even further,but not aaknowledging items that reach 78ilvl.Have you got those ones and still get opinion?Or you know all new items you elitist?

As if 6k of ci that regenerates in 1 second-having full life on-mods,being unaffected by what all other will affect in the game,isnt enough.Your concerns are faulty since you dont mention the positives.Also credit to me for reading that post of yours and now feel GGG did the right thing with CI

Excellent breakdown.

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Invalesco wrote:

I will be honest, I am disheartened at the route this game is taking. As epsi says, this game is becoming one-dimensional and as much as I tried to deny it, the obvious is right in front of me now.

QFT, couldn't have said it better myself, exactly how I feel.

And, Ironwill Mara? God... if mara became the only thing worth playing... well I guess I was lucky enough to have fun with the game while it still had versatility and flexibility unmatched by any. I will restrain myself from making comparisons with 'release' nerfs of whats better not be named here.

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Invalesco wrote:

...Stuff...

Thanks for making this post! This is exactly the type of info I was looking for prior to OB.

So true Invalesco :'(