POE: The Best of Games and the Worst of Games

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Chris wrote:

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ephetat wrote:

I am both relieved and concerned that Chris has finally given up on calling currency items crafting. I am relieved because currency items are not a crafting mechanic, they are a gambling mechanic. I am concerned because although the official distinction is welcomed, nothing from his post appears to be pointing towards an actual, proper crafting system being added to the game in the future, although it is clear he (and by extension GGG) recognizes the problem.

Vendor recipes allow more controlled crafting.

That's a nice troll. Or are you implying we can craft a more controlled 6 stat item if we throw items and currencies at vendors?

PS. search a thread of mine on how to improve crafting, might give you a clue what crafting should be in this game of yours. And a hint, we're not in the 90's anymore it's time to improve not go 2 steps back.

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Chris wrote:

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Randomzx wrote:

But why does almost everything have to be RNG? How can it be called Hardcore when skill matter very little?

The experience we are designing Path of Exile around is the experience we had playing Action RPGs when we were younger - the thrill of the next item being potentially the best one you've ever seen.

Skill matters in combat. Skill matters in races. Skill matters in PvP. Skill matters in trading. Skill matters when checking the vendor and knowing what to look for. Skill matters when looking at white items on the ground and realising that one of them has chromatic sockets or is a really high itemlevel.

If you succeed at the above areas through your skill, then you receive more (and hence better, on average) random items. Without the RNG, it would not be fun.

LoL even half brained monkey can do all of those, so no skill doesn't really matter. All you need is half a brain.

I think a lesson can be taken from just how popular the Descent Champions race appears to be. In that race we get tons of crafting items, and it's important to know when and how to use them if you want to perform well.

My favorite part of those races is using Alchs, Regals and Exalts to see if I can get that one item mod that will take me from struggling to owning.

Then I come back to the normal game, where I'm forced to browse through page after page of item 'shops' to find that one piece of gear that will finally enable the build I want to try. I'm not talking about making it godly - just making it possible.

I love the idea of crafting in this game - so much so that I've 'wasted' tons of currency on trying to make my own gear instead of trading for it. Sure, I probably could have purchased better gear if I wanted to look at the endless stream of Trade spam, or look on the forums, but IMO that's just one step removed from an Auction House. The current system still mostly relies on you buying the near-perfect drops that others get instead of finding or making your own.

Over 3,000 hours played and I've never gotten an Eternal drop. If I hadn't had to buy them and use them (man it physically hurt to do that) for the challenge in both leagues, I wouldn't believe they were real.

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reboticon wrote:

Over 3,000 hours played and I've never gotten an Eternal drop. If I hadn't had to buy them and use them (man it physically hurt to do that) for the challenge in both leagues, I wouldn't believe they were real.

Hi.

Have a cup of tea with me and let's talk about mirrors.

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xxxmarok84xxx wrote:

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Baldrick wrote:

Of course the crafting system is gambling. Do you want guaranteed success everytime you try to link something? It would be fun for a while until everyone had all the very top items possible, then people would get bored.

Yeah exactly, when I have 1 exalted orb dropped in a year of playing PoE ( no joke ) I sure want a guaranteed good stat. 1 year of time investment is not enought ? Well then fuck it, I wont play this for my whole life to get something good.
I saw a lot of posts also about no getting a 6 Link after 2k+ fusing orbs used. And you wonder why people want something guaranteed ?
And this game is boring after 70-80 lvl anyway. People are rolling new chars over and over because of this.

I understand the frustration believe me. It's possible that there should be some tweeks to the system, maybe even some new ideas implemented so reduce the frustration. However, as the system is currently designed, there are always going to be a certain percentage of people who never get good drops and end up quitting in frustration. They can't continue to drop the bar lower and lower, so to speak, to accommodate everyone, or they end up with a boring game. Some people just have to be sacrificed.

Come up with a better system (like a self found league with greatly increased drops, which I am in favor of) or something different like Jiix posted above, that still leaves us with something along the lines of my option 2.

By calling it "crafting" you lead one to believe that you can actually craft an item into something you want or into an upgrade. This is the wrong term. "Crafting" is not crafting at all. There is nothing you can do to increase the outcome of better random rolls. It is gambling and nothing more.

You have set yourself a set of expectations based on the terms you use. The current orb system works very well imo. Instead of having to go farm items over and over receiving types you don't want. You just pick up the type you do want and gamble roll it over and over until it has stats you want.

If you really think you are going to make that awesome piece of gear by alting -> augmenting -> blessing -> exalting -> eternal -> exalting, etc, etc, than you are dreaming. This is possible with great wealth but not practical and was never meant to be practical.

Gambing is Gambing, and RNG is RNG.

To call it crafting one would assume you could get better at it vie experience or build. There are no +% increase to gambling nodes.

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ntall1 wrote:

By calling it "crafting" you lead one to believe that you can actually craft an item into something you want or into an upgrade. This is the wrong term. "Crafting" is not crafting at all. There is nothing you can do to increase the outcome of better random rolls. It is gambling and nothing more.

You have set yourself a set of expectations based on the terms you use. The current orb system works very well imo. Instead of having to go farm items over and over receiving types you don't want. You just pick up the type you do want and gamble roll it over and over until it has stats you want.

If you really think you are going to make that awesome piece of gear by alting -> augmenting -> blessing -> exalting -> eternal -> exalting, etc, etc, than you are dreaming. This is possible with great wealth but not practical and was never meant to be practical.

Gambing is Gambing, and RNG is RNG.

To call it crafting one would assume you could get better at it vie experience or build. There are no +% increase to gambling nodes.

Have you ever tried crafting something with a lot of IIR gear on? You never know what might work...

The crafting materials do not drop anywhere near enough for crafting to be viable.

As of the moment, I'm at level 74, and playing with a mix of trading and self-found (had to trade for a death's harp, an upgrade for that, and quivers, along with blood dance and aurseize...but very low items in any case). Self-found a carnage heart though from cruel firefury =P

In any case, I have not seen a single exalt. I've seen some chaoses come and go (maybe around 13-14 total?). I've have one divine, one regal, and two blessed orbs.

Furthermore, let's separate the "rerolling" currencies from the "crafting" currencies, in that some of these currencies reroll properties, and some add properties.

Chance orbs, orbs of alchemy, orbs of transmutation, and chaos orbs are not crafting materials. They are gambling materials, in that you give up currency, and you get completely random rolls.

Regal orbs, orbs of augmentation, and exalted orbs are crafting currencies in that they add properties to items.

Here's the issue:

Regal orbs and exalted orbs are next to nonexistent, ergo most players cannot craft.

Furthermore, for anyone who's interested, go take a look at all of the possible prefixes you can have on a weapon. There's tons of them. What are the chances of getting anything from bloodthirsty and upwards (it seems a tyrannical mod is basically a godsend as it stands)?

Well, first let's look at the probability of even getting a damage scaling mod:

There are 4 flat damage additions (physical+3 elements), a damage enhance+accuracy type (that makes 5), gem level mods (6), and damage scaling (7).

So, only 1 in 7 items will even have a chance to roll a bloodthirsty+ mod.

Now, assuming that we found that 1 in 7, what's the chance for us to get a bloodthirsty or better mod? 3/7. So basically, starting off, we're at 3/49 ~= at 1 in 16 weapons just to get 110% enhanced damage.

Now if we wanted to get both a flat damage increase (tempered or flaring) AND a bloodthirsty+ damage scaling, well, that puts us at 1/7*2/7 for the flat damage (chance to roll flat damage, chance to roll tempered or flaring) = 2/49 * 3/49 = 6/2401 ~= 1/400, and since these are both prefixes, ONLY rares can get this.

So, if we simply want two good physical rolls, we're talking about 1 in 400 items. Now, if you want added crit chance, and so on, this number just goes to near zero really fast.

And all I'm asking is simple: I want two upper-level physical rolls.

Now, how can this number be substantially improved? This way:

Every weapon will have at least one of damage scaling or damage scaling+accuracy mod, and at least one flat damage modifier (physical or elemental, doesn't matter which).

But here's the main kicker--item mods will be at item level or one lower. So if you find an ilvl 60 weapon, you WILL get either a champion's, conqueror's, bloodthirsty, or cruel damage modifier. If you're exceptionally lucky, you'll get the other one, too, but guaranteed only one.

Similarly, on the suffix end, I think it should be split between +critical chance and +attack speed. In other words, the moment you find a white item, you can be sure it's going to be at the least useful if you alch it, if not amazing. Of course, then goes the argument that "we have to adjust the difficulty!". No, you don't. You simply have to not have the vast majority of your drops be complete trash--otherwise, the game isn't difficult so much as "do I have a decent item? Yes? I faceroll everything. No? I get facerolled."

Because as of the current moment, outright buying an item (despite how some may go for 15ex+) is still more cost-efficient than trying to craft--excuse me--gamble one using the converted cost in materials.

disagree totally with the negative comments about crafting. yes it's hard to get the mods you want and yes it's expensive. it should stay this way too. do you really want every noob in the game running around with the godliest gear? the game rewards the people that put in the time playing and also learning all there is to know about it. the crafting is the most innovative system i've ever seen in a game.