"
Natharias wrote:
+1.
Exactly how I feel and exactly what I would say.
The rest of the game is not worthy of the wonderfully made skill tree, skill, and potion systems.
Why did you support multiple times a game that is not worthy, exactly?
IGN: Iworkeout
|
Posted bycutt#5066on Dec 8, 2013, 6:15:00 PM
|
|
@Chris, mostly:
I have suspected for a long time that alchs/chaos (and other orbs to a lesser extent) were designed and tuned around being used to roll items far more often than they are now. Those drop rates were locked in before the map system was introduced, were they not? The advice that people give to all new players is "save any currency over an alch, use it to buy gear, and eventually you'll need them to roll maps." The problem lies in how maps-as-currency-sink works. It takes relatively few alchs/chaos to get a decent map, because maps get harder with a batched quantity rating based on difficulty. Whereas almost all items have a set of very specific stats they need to even be usable (high life or ES rolls, at least one resist, multiple damage affixes for weapons, etc). Because you designed the two vastly different systems to use the same currencies, it's almost always irrational to sink wealth into rolling items when the returns are so much better in rolling maps.
Add this to the fact that to sustain maps at a reasonable level, you have to alch them fairly low (69/70ish) and start getting better rolls as you go higher. This sinks the currency and drives up the value, exacerbating the problem. The worth versus the return on using these currencies on items is very poor.
Improving map drop rates, map size, and map boss loot likely did a lot to help overall rare item acquisition, but I get the sense that more is desired out of the crafting system specifically.
|
Posted byUvne#0425on Dec 8, 2013, 6:18:45 PM
|
"
cutt wrote:
You realise what genre of a game you are playing, right? You just said it yourself
"
There's actually very little skills involved in combat because of the ARPG nature
so what's the problem? Heavy skill dependent systems can't exist in the loot games, because loot = RNG.
You want skill dependent game? Play CS, LoL, Dota 2, BF4. Everything and everyone in these games is equal and has a hard counter.
Stop demanding ARPG to be something it has never and will not be.
Dark Souls is somewhat like an ARPG, it does have some random loots but with certain loots that are guaranteed to 'drop'. And it is often what most people think of when they said Hardcore game in the modern days
|
Posted byRandomzx#0844on Dec 8, 2013, 6:19:13 PM
|
"
Randomzx wrote:
"
cutt wrote:
You realise what genre of a game you are playing, right? You just said it yourself
"
There's actually very little skills involved in combat because of the ARPG nature
so what's the problem? Heavy skill dependent systems can't exist in the loot games, because loot = RNG.
You want skill dependent game? Play CS, LoL, Dota 2, BF4. Everything and everyone in these games is equal and has a hard counter.
Stop demanding ARPG to be something it has never and will not be.
Dark Souls is somewhat like an ARPG, it does have some random loots but with certain loots that are guaranteed to 'drop'. And it is often what most people think of when they said Hardcore game in the modern days
This game is not Dark Souls, it never was and it never will be. You knew this when you downloaded the game.
This is your main problem. This game is not something you were expecting it to be and is not something you were searching for, if you make these kind of complaints.
This is a loot game. Loot has to be random in order to be fun and repayable. The better loot you have the harder it will be to find an upgrade. This is common logic.
Would you replay Dark Souls for hundreds of hours like this game, or D2, or D3? The answer is obvious.
IGN: Iworkeout Last edited by cutt#5066 on Dec 8, 2013, 6:25:03 PM
|
Posted bycutt#5066on Dec 8, 2013, 6:22:21 PM
|
"
johnnysd wrote:
It (PoE) is one of the most enigmatic of titles I have ever played, being truly innovative and original in many areas while also at the same time having some systems and features that are among the worst I have experienced in a game of this type.
On the hand, you have the skill system and that transcendent skill tree. Just a picture of that skill tree was enough to get me interested in the game, and I remember spending long periods just looking at the closed beta lottery random picks hoping my name was picked.
The skill system and skill system are easily the best of any game I have played. Super deep and complex it allows for tremendous variations and interesting builds, and the layered interaction with skill and support gems is brilliant. I have no interest in copying other peoples builds
And the bad parts are as bad as the good parts are brilliant.
The "crafting" system is a complete abomination. Sorry but it is true. It adds literally nothing to the game other than annoyance and frustration and serves no strategic or skill value, rather simply a nested completely random slog through tons of orbs just to get features of an item to progress in the game. There may be underlying "economy" and grinding rationales behind the orb system but the reality is that is not fun on any level and really brings the enjoyment level of the game down significantly. There should be enough barriers in build, gear, monster AI, stat stacking etc...to make progression difficult and thought provoking not to need a gambling system on steroids to grind everything to a screeching halt. I am not convinced it does anything to make people play more, but it certainly will make people leave. It should be completely scrapped and overhauled to be honest. It is abysmal.
Then there is loot. POE does not really have loot, it has core items and orbs. Period. All you get as you play the game is an endless sea of white gear, occasional blues rares and uniques with random sockets that invariably need to be modified using incredibly low drop rate orbs and the terrible crafting system. There is very very rare joy in finding anything in POE. In fact drops are so bad, that it is actually more efficient to sit in town and "buy" items with the crafting orbs, because you are never going to find what you need, and the orbs you have because of the completely random nature are completely useless for trying to actually craft something. For a game that originally promised no currency and a barter system, POE is the most currency-concentric game I have ever played.
POE just needs more fun stuff to drop. Think about the fact that D2 had gens jewels, charms, set items, runes, class specific items, true crafted items and you realize that in D2 you always were finding something interesting even if it didn't make your character better, in POE you very rarely find anything that is interesting. Even the uniques are extremely limited.
Still, it is a very good game. And GGG are awesome in their bi-weekly content updates and additions. To be really sucessfull long term, I really think GGG needs to look at completely overhauling the orb and loot system because as it is, unless the skill system is a big enough hook (like it is for me) the other elements are bad enough to scare people away
The very best summory I have read here.
Please let me say that i did not only stop playing but i did also stop paying, because I did not feel any rewards for my playing time. Playing Poe suddenly did not feel like fun and joy, but like a very annoying second job.
As OP said, there is a lot of brilliance in PoE, especially skilltree..... but !!!!...Too much RNG, too much artificially gated content, too much brutal discrimination for soloers, that changed my joy and previous enthuiasm into complete frustration.
I am so sorry to admit that PoE lost my passion. Still I won´t say "good bye", but will wait for the future and have trust in the developers. They always found a solution , even if things had been extremly difficult.
Chris Wilson, I am sure you will follow your vision , and don´t let "specialist-experts" dominate your decisions.
|
Posted byMoonlight33#6927on Dec 8, 2013, 6:24:46 PM
|
"
Chris wrote:
On the other hand, if the currency items dropped extremely rarely, then players would almost never get the chance to create a rare or to add mods to one. They'd be relying *almost* entirely on item drops, so it'd be far harder for items to converge on the best rares.
But currency items are extremely rare. Serisously dropping an exalted/eternal orb is like a miracle, which happens once per 100-200 hours.
|
Posted byCookieVortex#2622on Dec 8, 2013, 6:26:23 PM
|
"
cutt wrote:
This game is not Dark Souls, it never was and it never will be. You knew this when you downloaded the game.
This is your main problem. This game is not something you were expecting it to be and is not something you were searching for, if you make these kind of complaints.
This is a loot game. Loot has to be random in order to be fun and repayable. The better loot you have the harder it will be to find an upgrade. This is common logic.
Would you replay Dark Souls for hundreds of hours like this game, or D2, or D3? The answer is obvious.
Yes I would, by your logic people would have stopped playing soccer or chess after a few days when it is invented.
Last edited by Randomzx#0844 on Dec 8, 2013, 6:31:22 PM
|
Posted byRandomzx#0844on Dec 8, 2013, 6:30:23 PM
|
"
CookieVortex wrote:
"
Chris wrote:
On the other hand, if the currency items dropped extremely rarely, then players would almost never get the chance to create a rare or to add mods to one. They'd be relying *almost* entirely on item drops, so it'd be far harder for items to converge on the best rares.
But currency items are extremely rare. Serisously dropping an exalted/eternal orb is like a miracle, which happens once per 100-200 hours.
You can add a zero to that for eternals, seriously.
~2000 hours of constant beasty slaying (a lot of which with 100+ IIQ) after that orb was implemented, I finally dropped one. ~1500 hours later and I still haven't seen another.
Exalts in that time? Maybe 40 or 50 or so.
Casually casual.
Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Dec 8, 2013, 6:35:16 PM
|
Posted byTheAnuhart#4741on Dec 8, 2013, 6:32:59 PM
|
|
Thank you very much Chris for the reply!
Crafting doesn't exist in POE. Gambling does...and the house always wins.
Velocireptile - I LOL'ed. Which made me fart. I wish the office were empty right now :(
Hardlicker - I had to push the dog out of the way so I could get to the sexy quilt.
|
Posted byToxicRatt#5950on Dec 8, 2013, 6:33:27 PM
|
"
Randomzx wrote:
"
cutt wrote:
This game is not Dark Souls, it never was and it never will be. You knew this when you downloaded the game.
This is your main problem. This game is not something you were expecting it to be and is not something you were searching for, if you make these kind of complaints.
This is a loot game. Loot has to be random in order to be fun and repayable. The better loot you have the harder it will be to find an upgrade. This is common logic.
Would you replay Dark Souls for hundreds of hours like this game, or D2, or D3? The answer is obvious.
Yes I would, by your logic people would have stopped playing soccer or chess after a few days when it is invented.
Dark Souls is a single player, skill dependent game. Soccer and chess are competitive games. Don't mix it. And no, you would't replay Dark Souls for hundred of hours like D2 or PoE. Stop lying. You know why? Because it doesn't have RNG, because it's not a loot driven game. Because once you completed the hardest difficulty of the game - it's finished. In ARPG games you play not to beat the game, but to acquire the best possible loot and build the most powerful character. It order for these games to be repayable - they need to be randomized.
And if Chris Wilson, the main designer of the game can't convince you in it, then you are truly playing the wrong game.
IGN: Iworkeout Last edited by cutt#5066 on Dec 8, 2013, 6:42:05 PM
|
Posted bycutt#5066on Dec 8, 2013, 6:41:09 PM
|
