POE: The Best of Games and the Worst of Games

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Chris wrote:

Skill matters in combat. Skill matters in races. Skill matters in PvP. Skill matters in trading. Skill matters when checking the vendor and knowing what to look for. Skill matters when looking at white items on the ground and realising that one of them has chromatic sockets or is a really high itemlevel.

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Chris wrote:

Thanks for the great post and discussion. This kind of constructive thread is very helpful.

I'd like to present my opinion on this. It doesn't necessarily represent any changes we're going to make.

If we had no currency items, our item system would be similar to older action RPGs like Diablo 2. You'd have to rely on finding rares as you play. Some of those rares would (by chance) be appropriate for your character, and others could be traded. We have a similar drop rate of rare items.

The addition of currency items like Orbs of Alchemy and Exalted Orbs allow players to modify their items in a more directed way. The extent to which this game system is important depends on how often they drop.

If alchs and exalts drop every minute then players would have easy access to masses of rares, all with six mods. This would create an extremely crafting-heavy game and content would have to progress steeply in difficulty to compensate. Rares would quickly "converge" so that everyone had top-5% ones.

On the other hand, if the currency items dropped extremely rarely, then players would almost never get the chance to create a rare or to add mods to one. They'd be relying *almost* entirely on item drops, so it'd be far harder for items to converge on the best rares.

This continuum, controlled by currency drop rates, dictates both the difficulty of the game, but also the amount of expected item manipulation that players need to engage in to gear up for Merciless.

Players play Path of Exile more efficiently than we imagined when we initially set the currency drop rates (which have remained mostly unchanged since then). Players are concentrating their item rerolls into fewer and better items than we intended. While this level of end-game item manipulation is often described as really fun, it has the problems that you've discussed in this thread. One way to address this would be to reduce the drop rate of higher currency and also make content easier. I am very aware that if we did this, people would complain that we nerfed currency drops and dumbed down the game difficulty. We'll find a better solution!

One thing I learned from launching Path of Exile is how difficult it is to modify a game once it's live and people are relying on enjoying their current characters. As much as I'd love to make sweeping changes to try to improve how fun and satisfying the item system is, we have to be mindful to do it in the correct way so that the silent majority aren't upset at the changes.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Thanks for the great post and discussion. This kind of constructive thread is very helpful.

I'd like to present my opinion on this. It doesn't necessarily represent any changes we're going to make.

If we had no currency items, our item system would be similar to older action RPGs like Diablo 2. You'd have to rely on finding rares as you play. Some of those rares would (by chance) be appropriate for your character, and others could be traded. We have a similar drop rate of rare items.

The addition of currency items like Orbs of Alchemy and Exalted Orbs allow players to modify their items in a more directed way. The extent to which this game system is important depends on how often they drop.

If alchs and exalts drop every minute then players would have easy access to masses of rares, all with six mods. This would create an extremely crafting-heavy game and content would have to progress steeply in difficulty to compensate. Rares would quickly "converge" so that everyone had top-5% ones.

On the other hand, if the currency items dropped extremely rarely, then players would almost never get the chance to create a rare or to add mods to one. They'd be relying *almost* entirely on item drops, so it'd be far harder for items to converge on the best rares.

This continuum, controlled by currency drop rates, dictates both the difficulty of the game, but also the amount of expected item manipulation that players need to engage in to gear up for Merciless.

Players play Path of Exile more efficiently than we imagined when we initially set the currency drop rates (which have remained mostly unchanged since then). Players are concentrating their item rerolls into fewer and better items than we intended. While this level of end-game item manipulation is often described as really fun, it has the problems that you've discussed in this thread. One way to address this would be to reduce the drop rate of higher currency and also make content easier. I am very aware that if we did this, people would complain that we nerfed currency drops and dumbed down the game difficulty. We'll find a better solution!

One thing I learned from launching Path of Exile is how difficult it is to modify a game once it's live and people are relying on enjoying their current characters. As much as I'd love to make sweeping changes to try to improve how fun and satisfying the item system is, we have to be mindful to do it in the correct way so that the silent majority aren't upset at the changes.

I bolded the problem.

If this said crafting mat, bound crafting mat; the loot find game, the economy and the crafting system wouldn't be the impossible dream it currently is, and will remain.

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karlklaps wrote:

also make 6 linking different, each fusing on the item impoves the chance (or the last gets 100% chance of 6 linking.
dont make it cost less fusings make it a 100% 6 link after 3,5 k fusings or more or less.

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Chris wrote:

One thing I learned from launching Path of Exile is how difficult it is to modify a game once it's live and people are relying on enjoying their current characters. As much as I'd love to make sweeping changes to try to improve how fun and satisfying the item system is, we have to be mindful to do it in the correct way so that the silent majority aren't upset at the changes.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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karlklaps wrote:

also make 6 linking different, each fusing on the item impoves the chance (or the last gets 100% chance of 6 linking.
dont make it cost less fusings make it a 100% 6 link after 3,5 k fusings or more or less.

JUST NO!!!

Imagine, if you will..

You have a rather nice bow you found, it's better than the one you use, the one you use is 5 linked. You aim to 6 link this one and replace the 5 link you use.

1000 fuses in, a better bow drops.

Do you really think that is a situation you want to be in?

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Worldbreaker wrote:

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johnnysd wrote:

But the crafting system is not fun, adds nothing to the game and does nothing to the game but it make it more frustrating.

It is probably because most people are "doing it wrong"

"Crafting" was created as a currency sink, people can gamble their currency away or save up to trade for other items.

There is far more control now with the introduction of Eternal orbs where people can actually roll the perfect piece of gear. If you read Kolps thread about it taking 700 Exalted to roll that perfect dagger, I believe that that is about right to get an absolute perfect piece of gear.

That alone made it a lot more controlled where before 1 bad exalt would trash your "craft".

Also, blowing all your currency and having nothing to barter with isn't the way to go either. Think of this system much like the Casino, you got bills to pay (Maps) but want to have some fun (Craft), you just need to manage your gambling problems.

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If you knew that say a 6L cost 1000 fusings to put in the vendor window and get your 6L, would you roll with the current system for a 1:1000 chance or pay the 1000 guarantee?

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Randomzx wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Skill matters in combat. Skill matters in races. Skill matters in PvP. Skill matters in trading. Skill matters when checking the vendor and knowing what to look for. Skill matters when looking at white items on the ground and realising that one of them has chromatic sockets or is a really high itemlevel.

Funny how when you go further and further down the list the less they have to do with Action in the RPG. And then you realize RNG still determines majority of the factor in races, PvP (hardly anyone even attempts PvP). There's actually very little skills involved in combat because of the ARPG nature (Spamming the same skills over and over again with positioning mattering very little, if you are not facerolling you are losing efficiency and gets no reward for fight everything with low hp (as in one shot kill) and manually dodge) and defense works, hence why all the top players invest majority of their effort in defense gears and life nodes.

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There's actually very little skills involved in combat because of the ARPG nature