Dec 24: One-week HC Race

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ragnarokgr wrote:

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Hilbert wrote:

I had that idea the first 1 week race, so more players are able to compete but the "no lifer" group flamed like: "You aren't good enough" and flamed further because I hit a nerve.
Now I will be hated because I openly say that I don't play alone.

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Also I wouldn't call account sharing with RL friends cheating since those friends don't play their own account that time.
It's just a bad mannered method to be competetive on a low level.

Finally someone who understands. That's what i've been trying to say. Account sharing etc isn't such a problem since well in each kind of contest everyone will find a way to "exploit" the system. Like in every league you can have friends give you gear so you get the edge mostly on fast leagues. Is it cheating, well no if it's not against the rules. Is it cheap game, well yes but what can you do? Unless of course ggg decides something against it.

The main problem though is what Hilbert said about people playing 35+ hours straight. Contests shouldn't be dependent on how many hours someone can play cause that way an idiot is bound to appear that thinks he will be awesome if he gets rank 1 and starts playing 1-2-3 days straigth etc. Well he is bound to have a stroke sooner or later.

Before you defend Hilbert, you should probably know that Hilbert plays way more hours than the majority of players during races, so he is one of the "no-lifers" that he tries to insult. During the first 2 week race, he spammed the forum with complaints about no-lifers. We decided to check the statistics (how many hours you play is recorded by PoE fansites using the ladder data) and found out that he had been playing tons of hours, and was himself a no-lifer. One of the so called "no-lifers" who had been defending themselves saw that Hilbert had actually played MORE hours than he did. That is the main reason why no one likes Hilbert. He is nothing but a whiny hypocrite.

Account sharing IS against the rules, for obvious reasons. Hilbert can believe that account sharing isn't cheating all he wants, but he doesn't make the rules, GGG does. He can believe the moon landing was faked too, but that doesn't make it true.

I find it funny that he is admitting to account sharing. Now he has no right to complain about what anyone else does. He is using the easiest build in the game, and he also cheats by sharing his account during races. He is one of the people who claimed that GGG had to do something to stop cheaters and exploiters, but he is a cheater and exploiter himself...

hypocrite

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Flavoured wrote:

i do understand, that you dont want someone to die of a stroke after a xxhour playing session, but really? if someone thinks, he needs to play xxhours straight, it is his problem! there are so many mmorpgs/games that give you an advantage if you play more/longer than usual or the casual player and once or twice a year, someone dies to it ( most of the time it is not even a stroke, it is dehydration and that persons stupidty ), and you make such a deal out of it...... got no understandig for it sorry.

in my opinion gaming is about fun, and if you feel that it is fun to play that long and be competitive, fine. if you cant invest the time, to be in the top 20, set your own goals or just dont compete if it isnt fun for you.

Well of course people should play as much as they want and that's what i do too but atleast i have the capacity to know my limits and that no matter what loot/rewards the game offers me i won't go over my limits. There is a but though and that refers to all those that no matter what, they feel the need to be first even if it goes against their own health.

While players do die in other games they chose to play so many hours but this is not really the case here cause its a contest and we all know people do crazy things to win contests. We are not talking about world's first (which is an artificial contest) or playing many hours to down a boss/raid. We are talking about a clear contenst with first second etc place and prizes. This makes everyone go apeshit for the rewards.

To make a comparison think about someone who has suicidal tendencies and you give him a knife as a gift. Of course he will kill himself. This is the same here. If you just make a game and he dies cause he overplayed well ok you couldn't do anything to prevent it but when you make a game and you create a contests that runs for days/weeks you inadvertently give the "knife" to them.

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Axebane wrote:

Before you defend Hilbert, you should probably know that Hilbert plays way more hours than the majority of players during races, so he is one of the "no-lifers" that he tries to insult. During the first 2 week race, he spammed the forum with complaints about no-lifers. We decided to check the statistics (how many hours you play is recorded by PoE fansites using the ladder data) and found out that he had been playing tons of hours, and was himself a no-lifer. One of the so called "no-lifers" who had been defending themselves saw that Hilbert had actually played MORE hours than he did. That is the main reason why no one likes Hilbert. He is nothing but a whiny hypocrite.

Account sharing IS against the rules, for obvious reasons. Hilbert can believe that account sharing isn't cheating all he wants, but he doesn't make the rules, GGG does. He can believe the moon landing was faked too, but that doesn't make it true.

I find it funny that he is admitting to account sharing. Now he has no right to complain about what anyone else does. He is using the easiest build in the game, and he also cheats by sharing his account during races. He is one of the people who claimed that GGG had to do something to stop cheaters and exploiters, but he is a cheater and exploiter himself...

hypocrite

I don't applaud Hilbert for insulting the so called no-lifers. He just shared my view that "being forced" to play is really bad. I myself play many hours and i see no harm in playing many hours as long as it doesn't feel forced. Now you can say you don't have to play the contest to begin with or you don't have to play so many hours but in this world there are many kinds of people including the "extreme".

Hopefully nothing will happen but if anything happens it will be bad publicity for ggg and the media will blame them like the media does now with games in general after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting and we all know they love to blame games for everything.

Anyway i hope it all goes well in the years to come and we can all enjoy PoE with no casualties :)

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ragnarokgr wrote:

Hopefully nothing will happen but if anything happens it will be bad publicity for ggg and the media will blame them like the media does now with games in general after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting and we all know they love to blame games for everything.

Anyway i hope it all goes well in the years to come and we can all enjoy PoE with no casualties :)

I really don't think you have anything to worry about. This is just a 1 week ladder. Diablo 2 had 6 month ladders and I don't think anyone played themselves to death in those.

And since you are using analogies, I've got one to consider:

Water can kill you if you drink too much of it in a short period of time. Therefore it's dangerous for stores to sell packages of bottled water. Now you can say you don't have to buy the bottled water to begin with or you don't have to drink it all at once, but in this world there are many kinds of people including the "extreme".

Basically, I'm saying that almost anything can kill you if you use/consume too much of it. Does that make it irresponsible for stores to sell food and water, just because someone could consume too much of it and die?

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You too :)

When? I was further away from combat, because I only had 2k,2k HP+ES which is barely 1/3rd of my usual Tankbuild. Xendran stood on drops and he even linked all items so did I when we were rushing.
I even posted your rip screen where Xendran said if you move away you will possibly die and you got between 2 frenzied merveils and died.(frenzy is possibly the 2nd hardest Turbo mod besides no life regen at all)

I even got gameplay videos and you won't see any grabbing at all.

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They flamed you because you started flaming GS-marauders that they lack skill (while playing the most skill-less build every race), writing your build is the best and your are the only one who can come up with a build that is that good (while again playing a build that needs no skill and isn't really anything new/interesting).

You know it yourself that GS was totally broken that time, all you needed was a 300 damage Karui Maul and you simply cleaned everything.
I said my build might be the safest and most itemindependant build! I would only consider it as best suited build for 1,5-2 week races which don't exists.
I never claimed I am the only one that can come up with good builds it's just that racer players rely on the common builds which are GS, level 5 LA or Spork and those are the builds you will see in top rankings in all racings.

Create a Righteous Fire or Arctic Breath Build and get on Top for example. It's impossible because many spells are simply far weaker or too expensive to be on par with others.
Others are only good as support skill.

I tried an explosive arrow ranger and the skill is so much inferior to elemental hit.

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You and Xendran are bragging way too much about your results - after and in the race. Don't get me wrong again, you played well, but you both depend on other player that deal damage and "carry you" - you never mentioned that/them. And "damage-dealer" need skill and are risky to play - and even then i didn't see a "damage-dealer" that bragged how well/good he played.

That's not true Xendran had discharge on switch and I had spark leveled on switch, I would simple had replaced my totems for DPS and refunded 4 skills, it's not like I am not flexible.
And now look what damage 3 frenzy 3-5 endurance charges on level 16 do.
"DPS" Chars were only needed on maps on Splitting map mods which are the 3rd hardest Turbo mod for summoners, because that map mod simply resulted in destroyed skeleton totems.

Also the English saying is "pot meets kettle"

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If a player is an adult he should be able to decide by himself how much he plays and how much time he wants to spend.

Players that play more than others will always be better than player that play less. "Real" sports show that. Reducing the time a player can play doesn't change that or makes it fair.

"Real" sports drop off much money so those players ruin their body till they are in their mid 30s.
Sports that aren't a national sport don't drop off enough money and the level isn't even competetive to amateur class in a country which it is national sport.

Here is a simple example: Ice Hockey, Rugby, Soccer and Baseball.
There is no country which is good in all 4 examples.

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in my opinion gaming is about fun, and if you feel that it is fun to play that long and be competitive, fine. if you cant invest the time, to be in the top 20, set your own goals or just dont compete if it isnt fun for you.

You don't understand when it's fun and when it's addiction.
You can't just say "they are adults let them do whatever they want"
Drug addicts or alcoholics get their rights of free decision taken away because of their addiction.

I even consider playing 4-6 h a day as much playing and even with sharing to get to 8-12h activity it's not even close to high scale players. You can't claim that playing 30h+ in one turn is healthy or a "fun" aspect and that's what several high ranked players do on 1 week races.

I really wish there would leagues with less competetive aspect(limited time or exp+drop punishment for long sessions which would also be a great bot protection) because then you can simply get home play 2-3h and stop without using friends as activity boosters.

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Just think if people are playing so many hours for a league that is currently on beta imagine what will happen in release.

I already heard let's call it "threats" for 72h turns. :(
Sorry but then those players could ask for the guiness world record for staying awake too, so they will be remembered, when they fall into coma.

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if someone thinks, he needs to play xxhours straight, it is his problem! there are so many mmorpgs/games that give you an advantage if you play more/longer than usual or the casual player and once or twice a year, someone dies to it ( most of the time it is not even a stroke, it is dehydration and that persons stupidty ), and you make such a deal out of it...... got no understandig for it sorry.

You talk about cases that make it into the news, most cases don't make it into the news.
What about car accidents? What about hospital deaths?
Dehydration is a "one turn death".
You want me to link to nature papers that research unusual caffein use, which is really common on long turns.
Long turns are bad for your heart. Ask people that work on 2 jobs and work 16+h a day what kind of health problems they got and you will have your answer.

Such people die in car accidents or hospital and never make it into the news.

This or last year a 20 year old more or less known e-sport gamer died because he fell asleep on a highway in a car.

Truck drivers were forced to drive such long routes in the past they worked that long as long turn gamers play often causing fatal accidents. The result that now they are only allowed to work limited times and mustn't pass a certain range.

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During the first 2 week race, he spammed the forum with complaints about no-lifers.

I didn't have a PoE account the 2 week race.

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We decided to check the statistics (how many hours you play is recorded by PoE fansites using the ladder data) and found out that he had been playing tons of hours, and was himself a no-lifer. One of the so called "no-lifers" who had been defending themselves saw that Hilbert had actually played MORE hours than he did. That is the main reason why no one likes Hilbert. He is nothing but a whiny hypocrite.

Sigh when will you get it that Hilbert are SEVERAL persons not one person and competition FORCED me to use RL friends to be competive.
And ofc you played less because you died the 4th day with a 70% activity rate while my account had a rare around 35-40% for 7 days.
Go back to D2JSP like most of the so called "D2 elites" that ruined D2 for 2003 by hitting a start button on a bot.
It's a shame that botter board members can easily become alpha members.
I still think using RL friends to be competive on a low level does far less harm, instead of using bots, a virtual currency board, which will break the game pretty much if the devs don't take a harder stance than "Don't trade here with it"

Also using RL friends causes many different problems not everybody plays on the same level, rebinding keys. It's quiet a risk you take because especially on HC the character can simply die and you didn't do a mistake.

There are several studies that competive play makes players aggressive and it seems those papers are right.

I wouldn't have a problem if there would be a league that only allows several players to join a Team and create a character they all got access to. Then everybody can create 24/7 characters.

Also you shouldn't claim that I'm the only who isn't playing alone.
Fayded plays with his brother for example.
Another high ranked player shares the account with his wife.

You can't do anything if the same PC is used.
You can only do something if you do a GeoIP Trace and find out that those were IPs all around the world and even then the owners can claim "I travel much"

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I really don't think you have anything to worry about. This is just a 1 week ladder. Diablo 2 had 6 month ladders and I don't think anyone played themselves to death in those.

Stop talking about D2. You all know D2 is a game that got botted to death for 2003.
The last legit players left 2003-2004.
And before that there wasn't really a ladder because obtaining a level 99 only took 26 hours.
PoE doesn't have got bots yet. But when it does it will have a serious problem and it might end like in D3 where Blizzard banned several accounts with high activity that farmed sarkoth for example.
Same thing could happen to PoE that legit players get suspected to bot Fellshrine ruins for example.
If PoE gets high level bots then this game is done for. I highly doubt that the devs have an idea how to beat a high level bot that emulates map generation, pathes based on packets and only uses read process memory.

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Axebane wrote:

I really don't think you have anything to worry about. This is just a 1 week ladder. Diablo 2 had 6 month ladders and I don't think anyone played themselves to death in those.

And since you are using analogies, I've got one to consider:

Water can kill you if you drink too much of it in a short period of time. Therefore it's dangerous for stores to sell packages of bottled water. Now you can say you don't have to buy the bottled water to begin with or you don't have to drink it all at once, but in this world there are many kinds of people including the "extreme".

Basically, I'm saying that almost anything can kill you if you use/consume too much of it. Does that make it irresponsible for stores to sell food and water, just because someone could consume too much of it and die?

Your analogy is wrong and i'll explain why. There is no contest in drinking water which is made by those selling the water. Have you seen how many people died/fainted in eating contests?

Let me tell you of another contest. In Finland they had an annual Sauna contest. Whoever stayed the longest won. Those saunas had tremendous degrees of heat unbearable for more than few minutes but since there was no time limit for the winner you could sit there as long as possible. Well in 2010 one finalist died and another had major burns on his body.

Do you see now how time limits in these kinds of contests are crucial? and to get back to your analogy yes if there was a water drinking contest to see who could drink the most, well if there wasn't some form of restriction as to how much you can drink people would die there.

Bottom line is every contest should have some form of restriction to avoid stupid people doing stupid things. If it's not a contest well you can't do anything to prevent them from doing stupid things anyway.

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Bottom line is every contest should have some form of restriction to avoid stupid people doing stupid things. If it's not a contest well you can't do anything to prevent them from doing stupid things anyway.

You mean like limit it to just one week (seriously?)? Can everyone stop spamming this thread with all kinds of nonsense and flames. And for the love of everything good, stop responding to that bloody troll. This thread is way off track, no ones going to be able to find anything useful in this mess.

Thx for the nice answer Hilbert, didn't expect that. I really like the change. Not flaming other players suits you. I usually agree with your opinion - but in my opinion you take the game/competition way to serious.

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Hilbert wrote:

When?

Don't remember the map, you picked up my GCP because i was 1s too late. Then posted something that you used all your GCPs. Usually you picked up my rare stuff because i couldn't go there (because of no def). Honestly i don't care - as long as you don't flame other players because of this.

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Hilbert wrote:

You know it yourself that GS was totally broken that time, all you needed was a 300 damage Karui Maul and you simply cleaned everything.
it's just that racer players rely on the common builds which are GS, level 5 LA or Spork and those are the builds you will see in top rankings in all racings.

I agree here. But a player that clones a build won't have as much fun and success (with the same amount of time spent) as someone who thinks about his build and tries to optimize it.
And btw, tank summoner is a common build too ...

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I tried an explosive arrow ranger and the skill is so much inferior to elemental hit.

Then why do you play the (almost) same build every race? Why not try something new and be different than "common build players"?

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Hilbert wrote:

That's not true Xendran had discharge on switch and I had spark leveled on switch, I would simple had replaced my totems for DPS and refunded 4 skills, it's not like I am not flexible.

But still, you wouldn't have the same killspeed than with a DPS player - and that's (almost) all that matters. For example with discharge it would (probably - i don't play tank) be harder for him to tank.

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Hilbert wrote:

"Real" sports drop off much money so those players ruin their body till they are in their mid 30s.

Well its their problem. There are enough other ways to earn money.

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Hilbert wrote:

Sports that aren't a national sport don't drop off enough money and the level isn't even competetive to amateur class in a country which it is national sport.

The point i was trying to make : The more you train (=time spend) the better you will be. Of course there is talent / skill. But thats not everything.

Because of that a player that practise alot will be better than 90% of players that don't pracitise. Which means they will still be on top.

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Hilbert wrote:

You don't understand when it's fun and when it's addiction.
You can't just say "they are adults let them do whatever they want"
Drug addicts or alcoholics get their rights of free decision taken away because of their addiction.

I agree a bit here with you. But addiction in small parts isn't bad (and even playing 10h straight is addiction in my opinion). People have to learn how to handle addiction. Because if they don't there will be a drug someday that destroys them. Restricting playtime won't help addicts at all in my opinion. Create another account and you can play again.

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Hilbert wrote:

You can't claim that playing 30h+ in one turn is healthy or a "fun" aspect and that's what several high ranked players do on 1 week races.

It's not healthy and probably wouldn't be fun for me. But i like crazy/strange things and i did unhealthy stuff - and it was really fun. Perhaps for some people it realy was fun.

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Hilbert wrote:

I really wish there would leagues with less competetive aspect(limited time or exp+drop punishment for long sessions which would also be a great bot protection) because then you can simply get home play 2-3h and stop without using friends as activity boosters.

You can do the same thing now. Who cares if you get 2th or 3th? Who cares if you die 8h before league end? The most important thing is to have fun - not just to win (and doing everything to achieve it).

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Drystion wrote:

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Bottom line is every contest should have some form of restriction to avoid stupid people doing stupid things. If it's not a contest well you can't do anything to prevent them from doing stupid things anyway.

You mean like limit it to just one week (seriously?)? Can everyone stop spamming this thread with all kinds of nonsense and flames. And for the love of everything good, stop responding to that bloody troll. This thread is way off track, no ones going to be able to find anything useful in this mess.

Ok take a second go to your bathroom in a mirror and look at yourself. Now repeat what you just said. "Limit a one week contest to one week" ... Sound stupid right? well it is.

If you think i am trolling for something that has to do with people's lives then you are sadly mistaken.

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ragnarokgr wrote:

I don't think these day-long/week-long leagues should exist. It promotes account sharing so people can have their character online 24/7 or god forbid players actually playing 24 or more hours straight on their own.

Let's not forget that people have actually died playing games like diablo 3 for over 3 days straight and there wasn't even a prize there.

Now if you really want to keep them you can introduce a system where in those leagues each player can have a daily quota for playing like lets say 6-8 hours a day and if it's depleted they can't play anymore but you can start replenishing the playable hours while you are offline.

That way you ensure that players won't cheat with account sharing and they won't play like crazy each day. Plus after the initial 8 hours you can still play more in that same day if you stay offline for few hours etc. Also each day it gets resetted.

You realize the people that die staying up for 3 days have had tons of pre existing medical conditions. You can easily stay up for a week without dying, however you may start to see little green men, or something similar when you start to lose it from sleep deprivation. Omg 24hrs ohhh noo. Just stop please or don't participate. It is not ggg's place to play the parent. Your ideas sound horrible k thanks.