We players want an auction house

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So judging from your last 2 paragraphs you believe an in game AH would change nothing,

Quite the opposite of changing nothing, poe trade in its current state requires work and no automated purchasing.

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so why then are you so vehemently opposed to it?

The last paragraph is exactly why I don't want an AH, its my whole comments as a whole to why an AH is terrible, not just 1-2 lines taken out of context. The second line was in regards to his specific concerns about the current system being "controlled" by scammers, flippers, ect. This would only get worst in that regard.

Rather hilarious that a thread this old can be resurrected and still be on topic.

Having spent entirely too much time on the forums this past week, I get the feeling that 75+% of the anti-AH posters in this thread have left the game.

On page 10, mark1030: "Auction House didn't ruin D3. But D3 did ruin Auction Houses for all future arpgs". Truer words never spoken.

Starting at the bottom of page 25, ScrotieMcB and others (notably mazul and deteego) begin a lengthy, in depth, knowledgeable, and surprisingly civil discussion of the subject of trade as it relates to ARPGs and PoE in particular. Seriously GGG should've had hired those guys/gals as part time consultants.

If the OP was trolling, this gets my vote for the most successful troll thread ever here on the PoE forums.

In the end, poe.trade, procurement, trade channel, trade windows, effectively an Auction House has existed in PoE for over a year now. Admittedly its got its clunky parts, and personally I hate the 3rd party program reliance.

I've never understood what GGG's position on this subject is or was. No idea about what vision they were really trying to achieve. If they meant to have a straight barter system they've sure dropped the ball and screwed the pooch.

Personally I think the problem is endemic to the combining of the rather roguelike game Diablo with the world of persistent multiplayer gaming. The idea of drops and barter, well so many problems, so much abuse, so many broken attempts at solution. If you want to see cut throat trade competition in an online game, there's really only one name that jumps immediately to 'best in slot' and that's EvE.

It would be interesting to see the result of learning from EvE's example and applying it to a PoE-like ARPG. Maybe we'll see that from GGG someday - but ya know - not holdin' my breath, lol.

My 2c anyhow.

Logged in specifically to say no thanks to this. The only real changes I would like to trading is if things like procurement and por.trade were brought into the official GGG sphere and if we could trade with people on the web browser, phones and in the game simultaneously and asynchronously. Interacting with people with unique desires is what makes trading fun.

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Rather hilarious that a thread this old can be resurrected and still be on topic.

Except its further from being necessary then ever before.

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Having spent entirely too much time on the forums this past week, I get the feeling that 75+% of the anti-AH posters in this thread have left the game.

You are wrong, I can assure you more then 75% of players do not want this.

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On page 10, mark1030: "Auction House didn't ruin D3. But D3 did ruin Auction Houses for all future arpgs". Truer words never spoken.

AH shouldn't exists for ANY ARPG game. There should be some way to do an offline trade (thru forums), but no b\o listed it must be a manually thing to do, similar to steam's offer system.

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If the OP was trolling, this gets my vote for the most successful troll thread ever here on the PoE forums.

He wasn't trolling, but taking quotes out of a reddit thread about AH discussion. Of course cherry picking ones and not linking this discussion.

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In the end, poe.trade, procurement, trade channel, trade windows, effectively an Auction House has existed in PoE for over a year now. Admittedly its got its clunky parts, and personally I hate the 3rd party program reliance.

This has been brought up multiple times, the reliance on 3rd party and the lack of an automated method make trading in this game something everyone can do, but no everyone does (because it requires some work)

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I've never understood what GGG's position on this subject is or was. No idea about what vision they were really trying to achieve. If they meant to have a straight barter system they've sure dropped the ball and screwed the pooch.

Its position is that trading shouldn't be automated, items should be and still are somewhat barter friendly.

"

Personally I think the problem is endemic to the combining of the rather roguelike game Diablo with the world of persistent multiplayer gaming. The idea of drops and barter, well so many problems, so much abuse, so many broken attempts at solution. If you want to see cut throat trade competition in an online game, there's really only one name that jumps immediately to 'best in slot' and that's EvE.

Comparing a grinding mmo to an arpg game really isn't fair. So many differences I can't even begin to explain why they shouldn't be compared.

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goetzjam wrote:

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I've never understood what GGG's position on this subject is or was. No idea about what vision they were really trying to achieve. If they meant to have a straight barter system they've sure dropped the ball and screwed the pooch.

Its position is that trading shouldn't be automated, items should be and still are somewhat barter friendly.

Somewhat doesn't work. Allowing trade of currency items destroyed any chance of barter economy.

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goetzjam wrote:

"

Personally I think the problem is endemic to the combining of the rather roguelike game Diablo with the world of persistent multiplayer gaming. The idea of drops and barter, well so many problems, so much abuse, so many broken attempts at solution. If you want to see cut throat trade competition in an online game, there's really only one name that jumps immediately to 'best in slot' and that's EvE.

Comparing a grinding mmo to an arpg game really isn't fair. So many differences I can't even begin to explain why they shouldn't be compared.

You're looking for and at the differences rather than the similarities. When examining two different systems and trying to extract useful information from one system that succeeds in one particular operation to possibly apply to the second system, it is the similarities you examine. The differences are of little, if any, importance.

My 2c anyhow.

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Somewhat doesn't work. Allowing trade of currency items destroyed any chance of barter economy.

So you want a system where people only trade uniques for uniques and rares for rares?

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The differences are of little, if any, importance.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

Goetz - you're one of a few posters who immediately spring to mind when I think 'loves PoE fanatically, wants absolutely nothing to change (at least unless GGG decide they want to change it)'. That's not a criticism, but I could sum up all your responses with 'just no, don't do it, don't do it ever'. Your perspective is noted, but please don't purport to speak for the majority of the pbase ;)

The absence of action on a sane trading system (that is, one which is actually in-built and doesn't rely on the generosity of perennially frustrated third parties to code up and operate) indicates that GGG isn't willing even to take the first, most simple step they already have a system built to accommodate. Namely:

*there is an ongoing beta testing system for various changes such as extra-rare-dropping ghosts with bad AI, perhaps try a few different options for trade in short duration temp leagues and pick the one that works best !*

^^ This way, we could all stop speculating about the effect of different systems on the game and economy by using, like, syence. Getting evidence n stuff.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Somewhat doesn't work. Allowing trade of currency items destroyed any chance of barter economy.

So you want a system where people only trade uniques for uniques and rares for rares?

Or three rares for a unique, or two rares and a good blue for two higher level ilevel rares, or... etc. That is barter.

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goetzjam wrote:

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The differences are of little, if any, importance.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

Start with Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software by the GoF and begin to learn how wrong you are.

My 2c anyhow.

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Or three rares for a unique, or two rares and a good blue for two higher level ilevel rares, or... etc. That is barter.

Here is def of barter, in case you don't know.



Orbs are only considered "money' because they are typically used in this barter system. Next time you try to buy something from sonemone offer then 1c less and see if they take it....

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goetzjam wrote:

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Or three rares for a unique, or two rares and a good blue for two higher level ilevel rares, or... etc. That is barter.

Here is def of barter, in case you don't know.

Spoiler

exchange (goods or services) for other goods or services without using money.

Orbs are only considered "money' because they are typically used in this barter system. Next time you try to buy something from sonemone offer then 1c less and see if they take it....

I prefer this definition (British Dictionary): to trade (goods, services, etc) in exchange for other goods, services, etc, rather than for money.

The trouble with orbs is that they have a dual role as both usable crafting item and vendor currency. Since they are used to buy things from the in game vendors, they are used as currency in the context of trade.

Yeah its a niggling point, but the moment you use them in interplayer trade, you've thrown barter out the window since in the context of trade they are currency. Fundamentally no different than silver and gold coins used for currency up until a bit over a century ago. The historic role of gold, silver, and copper as both currency and raw material is very close to PoE's orbs in practice.

Barter, in practice, historically, was more along the lines of trading x sheep for y goats, or a dozen beaver pelts for a new Kentucky rifle, powder horn, etc.