We players want an auction house

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TikoXi wrote:

PoE's economy in the new leagues is already strained heavily by rampant economy botting.

That is to say, that GGG's approach to the handling of trade by largely, and irresponsibly, ignoring its implementation has let 3rd party sites, software, meta-game traders, and RMT houses dictate what happens in game. Very very sad.

I normally cut GGG a ton of slack because they are an indy, they do F2P the right way, and they address a very niche, even cultish, segment of the gaming population, and I like them as a company, PoE as a game, and the individual devs as well, individuals. But in regards to trade they have just totally screwed the pooch, dropped the ball, and thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't care if the solution provided in game is an auction house, a marketplace, legal player vendor bots, or a combination of restricting trade to barter in actual wearable/wieldable/slotable items only together with a restructuring of the RNG drop system; but something really does need to be done.

The game has reached the point where no one can reach, or even with few exceptions approach, end game without quite a bit of trading. The end game gateway gearchecks require builds such as those published in the builds section of the forums, the vast majority of which require BiS items and/or uniques that I haven't seen, and probably couldn't afford, in all of my time playing on all accounts combined since closed beta.

Of course, anyone profiting by the current situation is opposed to any change or solution. I'm not quite ready to join the tin hat crowd and put GGG itself into that group but heh... I'm from Missouri, show me.

Not really read through all of these pages but in short I do not want an auction house. I like the way the system is now and I personally love how GGG has created the in game economy. I personally love the idea of having to look for the things I want to buy and having the ability to trade, barter and haggle to come to a price on items. All of that is gone the second an auction house lands in game. at that point all people do is type in the item, search for the lowest price, put theirs up for sale for 1 alt less and wait to get their check in the mail. I would actually be pretty disappointed if they added one. Thats just one gamers point of view though.

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The 2 reasons I could extract from all your filler:
1) AH didn't work in D3, therefore it won't work in POE.
2) An AH will mean trading is less work, making it so more people trade.

So you cherry pick some statements rather then addressing all of it....

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Your nr. 1 reason that you keep on repeating, is apples and oranges. Just because the particular implementation of an AH in 1 game did not work, doesn't mean that the implementation in POE won't work. AH and playershops did work and are still working in scores of other online loot based rpgs, with a large variety of rules.

It would be worst in PoE because orbs = gold, just set at typical prices. Again the same problem any automated method of buying and selling items would happen, bots, flippers (even worst), ect. The risk\effect isn't worth the reward of allowing you "lazy" players an easier way of selling items.

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Your nr. 2 reason is just your own selfishness, you don't want setting up a shop or selling items to be less tedious, because more players trading is going to lower your profit margins. Somehow I can't feel sorry for you ;)

You really should so some research before you call people out on cutting into profit margins for a shop I don't really even have. Go head and search see I have a forum post, that isn't maintained\updated and I only recently got a PM about 1 item I am trying to sell. I do setup shops in the leagues typically, but in standard it isn't worth my time for a few c here and there.

This isn't about cutting into my margins (which is impossible currently) this is about players being reward for doing a little work. There is no since of reward if you get an item, drop it into a box, select the price and see if it sells, that takes no effort and you won't feel rewarded.

Part of the issue here is players want it now, but don't want to put forth any effort, OP is like that, @run is like that and almost anyone here that agrees on an AH is like that.

As I said before, I'll ignore all % of players that "want or don't want" this or that because we don't have anyway of getting an accurate poll of that information.

Again my biggest point I can make. We've all seen what an AH does to an ARPG before, it can never and will never happen. The fundamental nature of the scope of the mistake would be so large it would literally be the biggest mistake GGG could make.

Looting in an ARPG should be rewarding and fun, simply picking up an item, going to town, dropping it into a box with a b\o price and waiting won't be rewarding looting experience.

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vixien wrote:

No, "We" players don't. In future topics, please leave me out of your over generalized statements. Thank you.

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goetzjam wrote:

[We've all seen what an AH does to an ARPG before, it can never and will never happen. The fundamental nature of the scope of the mistake would be so large it would literally be the biggest mistake GGG could make.

no ARPG with an AH ever had a working economy...

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XxLabanxX wrote:

Not really read through all of these pages but in short I do not want an auction house. I like the way the system is now and I personally love how GGG has created the in game economy. I personally love the idea of having to look for the things I want to buy and having the ability to trade, barter and haggle to come to a price on items. All of that is gone the second an auction house lands in game. at that point all people do is type in the item, search for the lowest price, put theirs up for sale for 1 alt less and wait to get their check in the mail. I would actually be pretty disappointed if they added one. Thats just one gamers point of view though.

Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinion, but I do have a few questions. Starting with the bolded part of your post in the quote above. Do you mean you use the in game bulletin boards and chat channels to find items and then meet with the person to haggle and perhaps buy? Or are you using poe.trade and procurement, verifying using 3rd party tools, checking to see if the seller is online, then finally whispering him and getting down to business - maybe.. if he's in the same time zone and not in the middle of something?

And this auction house you speak of, automated you say? With all prices displayed? Seems like you only have one idea of what an auction house is - perhaps the D3 model by any chance? There are other models, better models, in fact, a true auction house does not display prices (unless they have a high buyout price). For example, the model used in LotRO: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Auction_House, which has *none* of the drawbacks you wrote of.

That (the LotRO model) is an auction house, what D3 had was an abomination.

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Do you mean you use the in game bulletin boards and chat channels to find items and then meet with the person to haggle and perhaps buy? Or are you using poe.trade and procurement, verifying using 3rd party tools, checking to see if the seller is online, then finally whispering him and getting down to business - maybe.. if he's in the same time zone and not in the middle of something?

I've used all of those methods, typically speaking for uniques in particular you can find better deals being spammed on the party board or in trade chat, then a listed price on poe.trade, plus typically they are online and not afk, most players will have selling xxxx and yyyy, send message semi-afk or afk. Those typically get ignored, as for trade chat they or a script are spamming the items for sell.

As for poe.trade and all of that yes you have to verify the item and message the player before trying to buy, but that really isn't an issue for the vast majority of trades that occur. Some added way to trade (like steam trade\offer system) of offline (meaning not in game at same time) trading from a case by case, specific to player basis would be a really nice addition.

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And this auction house you speak of, automated you say? With all prices displayed? Seems like you only have one idea of what an auction house is - perhaps the D3 model by any chance? There are other models, better models, in fact, a true auction house does not display prices (unless they have a high buyout price). For example, the model used in LotRO: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Auction_House, which has *none* of the drawbacks you wrote of.

No where in that wiki does it state a b\o isn't shown. The system of check and balances when it comes to listing fee can't be used in PoE either. Honestly, not sure why you even mentioned this AH as it appears to be the same exact model that D3 had, with the exeption of D3's took a % rather then part of the vendor value.

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That (the LotRO model) is an auction house, what D3 had was an abomination.

They appear to be the same thing.

In no way should this game ever have automatic buying\selling.

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goetzjam wrote:

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That (the LotRO model) is an auction house, what D3 had was an abomination.

They appear to be the same thing.

In no way should this game ever have automatic buying\selling.

Buyout price listing was optional and only used for commodity/starter gear back when I played. Higher end items were typically listed without buyout and for shorter periods of time. A similar system could be adapted easily for PoE without becoming a simple price list.

Curiously you seem to have no trouble with automation of sorts as long as its not done by GGG? Or is it just you are opposed to automation of particular portions of the transaction?

Regardless, I'll take your:

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goetzjam wrote:

In no way should this game ever have automatic buying\selling.

and raise you a:

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Madtank wrote:

I would love an AH even if it where a limited form of a AH.

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Buyout price listing was optional and only used for commodity/starter gear back when I played. Higher end items were typically listed without buyout and for shorter periods of time. A similar system could be adapted easily for PoE without becoming a simple price list.

B\O in PoE are not optional (they are required on the vast majority of items), similar to like when D3 had an AH people want items RIGHT WHEN they look for it, not down the road. Uniques always have a typical value and a b\o set for most of them (at least the ones being sold that is). PoE technically already is a price list, just without a completely in game system and the dependency on 3rd party utilities.

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Curiously you seem to have no trouble with automation of sorts as long as its not done by GGG? Or is it just you are opposed to automation of particular portions of the transaction?

Automation to help supplement the existing infrastructure is good (although the current system isn't technically automated, you have to do a little bit of work). Being able to search for an item, especially in game and essentially buy it as fast as you can buy items off a vendor is NOT good.


Regardless, I'll take your:



You take my statement and respond with another person's comment that wants some form of an AH? I mean that doesn't even address why an AH (or automated method of buying\selling) is terrible for an ARPG game...

Improvements to the current system would be most ideal, for example messaging a player that hasn't moved in over 15 min should put back a message saying that player is afk. Could GGG add some way of listing your items and remove the necessity of procurement and maybe poe.trade, sure, but this honestly isn't necessary. One thing most people fail to realize is the system actually does work, some things 3rd parties actually do better then game developers (skill tree planner is prime example)

Many other simple things can be done to IMPROVE the existing working trading system. This game isn't in beta anymore, you can simply change one of the fundamental things PoE is based on completely and expect players to overall be fine with it.

Hi

Auction house could be great but I thought of something yesterday I would like to put forth to the POE community to think about: trade stash tabs.

GGG could implement 2-4 extra tabs for our stash that are trade tabs, players would be able to place items here to trade and other players would simply click on that player via in town or on chat and the list of options would come up like normal but now include ''check players trade tab''. This would allow players the options of NOT having to be in spam chat or leave the game to check the trading forums.

These trade stash tabs could also later be sold as another mtx via GGG.

I think this would be an excellent middle ground to an auction house and what has already been implemented for trading in this game.

cheers

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Finkenstein wrote:

Hi

Auction house could be great but I thought of something yesterday I would like to put forth to the POE community to think about: trade stash tabs.

GGG could implement 2-4 extra tabs for our stash that are trade tabs, players would be able to place items here to trade and other players would simply click on that player via in town or on chat and the list of options would come up like normal but now include ''check players trade tab''. This would allow players the options of NOT having to be in spam chat or leave the game to check the trading forums.

These trade stash tabs could also later be sold as another mtx via GGG.

I think this would be an excellent middle ground to an auction house and what has already been implemented for trading in this game.

cheers

IIRC Chris stated he wanted something similar to a trade tab added.

As for trade stash tabs being sold I don't think that is a good idea, it is already borderline on the current stash tabs, making a larger inventory of items to be sold via trade tabs as mtx would be a mistake.

The ideal middle ground (imo) would be a forum initiated trade system similar to steam's offer system, where one player can offer something for something else. This requires neither to be online and ingame at the same time, but also prevents automation.