Have a glimpse of the market and How to make wealth in PoE.

"

reboticon wrote:

It's much harder to get started in standard because of inflation and so many uniques already floating about. Your best bet is to just farm alts for some more currency so you can buy a high dollar item, or farm docks/piety, or try to flip currency until you can afford a several exalt item.

Even with the flood in standard league, the really useful uniques still cost a fortune, no noticable price drops for me but to be honest, I don#t pay much attention to trading.
It's just so time intense, I want to play PoE and not waste time with trading. Funny how some players spent so many time in trading, there must be some fun where I don't see any.
I like the new "offline" trading options, GGG will include in the game. So I just can put all the crap into a stash tab and don't need to be online all day to watch the trade chat. ^^

"

Hectrix wrote:

Spoiler

hello

thought i post an update
i made another account that is used for Magic finding
yes i started doing some of the things you mentioned like tracking those wtb threads ,,its quite terribly hard to perform currency flip in standard tradechat

while thats a work in process
i like to inquire what is the best mf build that i could optimize for with my current budget (1 divine) a friend suggested rapterJesus i also check out what lemmy33 suggested that CI summoner guy..let me know which build to follow

i created another account for that ,,also how much stash tabs do i need to complement these farmings

Spork Witch is probably the best, though some like summoner. Both Panko and FireKnight have builds that will work in the Witch subsection. Mine is optimized a bit differently than theirs, but the framework is always the same. I have over 50 stash tabs, but you can use mules, I bought a divine supporter pack, and don't really care about visual effects, so it all went to stash tabs for me. For me, this was a much more enjoyable way to make wealth, but it it won't make you as rich as trading. Also you can go a week without a good drop. Then you might get 4 good drops in a day.

"

Fusion_Power wrote:

Even with the flood in standard league, the really useful uniques still cost a fortune, no noticable price drops for me but to be honest, I don#t pay much attention to trading.
It's just so time intense, I want to play PoE and not waste time with trading. Funny how some players spent so many time in trading, there must be some fun where I don't see any.
I like the new "offline" trading options, GGG will include in the game. So I just can put all the crap into a stash tab and don't need to be online all day to watch the trade chat. ^^

Yeah, that's how I did it, farming, but it won't make you as rich as trade. I would definitely try to farm the "Good" uniques, but his question specifically asked how to trade up to them with his limited currency, and I just don't know how you do that, because I can't stand trade channel. I just throw everything in a stash tab like you do, but it was hell when the leagues ended last night. I spent 6.5 hours organizing my Anarchy/Standard stash, and I still have to do rings/belts/amulets there, and then I gotta do Onslaught/Hardcore stash also.


edit: Also I work a 50 hour week (am at work right now), and I managed to do it, but I did no life it on weekends.

The thing is, I genuinely enjoy playing sporker. I enjoy the play style, and I enjoy getting drops. I have other characters that are far more efficient and far more deadly, but they get boring for me after an hour or so, because I just don't get many items to identify.

@moozooh : During my journey, i met a few rich people on Anarchy and a few more on Standard, in anarchy, the one i met had multiple mirrors and in standard the minimum was 500ex+

I don't think GGG try to reduce drops to prevent some players of getting rich.. but it's true they disabled the chaos recipe by making it only for for items ilvl 60+

That gomi guy who showed a video with his 3000ex+ had probably more..

Don't quit the game, you can actually win, if you have a good build and do maps, exalts drop much more there it seems ( you said it yourself you got exalts there)!

"

"So yes, trading is, by far, the main and the best method to generate wealth."

Not sure about it! I want to write a new guide about how some players get ton of exalts by, actually...playing ( doing the chaos recipe they told me). I am not ready to go hear their full story or to try their thing. He told me that he taught it to someone, that 'someone' was begging to get an mf ring ( damn i am using the word mf from now on, because Chris used it, we really should use this instead : IIQ/IIR) for 2EX and now he is buying wands for 40ex+..

He showed me his rings and told me aboutt how he got an offer of multiple mirrors for that ring and refused..

So i am starting to think, that :

______________________________________
I was wrong, playing the game can beat playing the market, in gaining wealth.
______________________________________

"

It's because these games weren't balanced around economy—it's the economy that was created around humane drop rates.

Probably because it's an online game, true!

"

TL;DR: By teaching people how to exploit in-game economy, you only serve to exacerbate every economy-related problem—the biggest problems the game has.

Don't you think that : if everybody was doing this, the problem might show up and GGG might make changes ?
A lot of players hide their power, or just don't have time to share it or just don't care.
I remember when i was a player who never had an exalt, check this :

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/375861

This is way i wanted to share this power/knowledge. An important note : I'v heard Chris joking about what some players were doing : buy in the morning sell in the evening ( or the opposite) i am not sure where i'v heard about it, maybe in gamespot video ( http://au.gamespot.com/shows/now-playing/?event=path-of-exile-2-20131004 )? Can we assume : they don't see the market players as a problem ?
__

Finally, this is a very good practice for real life, let's hope it could help me apply it on real life deals ( who knows..)

@Hectrix : there is another way for gaining wealth that i did not post on my guide; I should add it soon.

5. Sell boss kills or act runs for players in hurry.
Some greedy players sell each Boss for 1 chaos, some other sell act+boss for 1 chaos.
6. make a cheap build that can roll maps, you will probbaly have a good drop or just some exalts.

All tools are in your hand. Go for it!
(@reboticon listen to Reboticon he has some good advices for builds i think, thanks for your contribution Andro! )

I would say that most common way people use is :

Have a job -> Buy exalts from RMT -> enjoy game not caring about stupid RNG shit :S

For most people X0$ is nothing more then few hours of real-time-work. Pity GGG only encourages community to choose this way ...

I think this thread is helpful, rather than harmful, to the economy, because it explains to people who don't know Exactly How People Are Getting Rich. I've underpriced a lot of really valuable items.

"

Inexium wrote:

the one i met had multiple mirrors and in standard the minimum was 500ex+

500 ex?.. To be honest, I have hard time believing that to be legit stuff, unless it was mostly made prior to important nerfs. I know for a fact that 90+ level players spend vast amounts of resources on rolling lv 74-77 maps and crafting top-end gear that doesn't exist on the market, and they spend vast amounts of time doing maps rather than flipping items all day. I have no reason to believe he gets considerably more than a map's worth out of any of them on average. I would only believe that if he counted all of his items' worth combined (including the endgame gear and rolled maps), not just currency.

The 3000 ex guy I don't even doubt is a cheater, wtf.

"

Inexium wrote:

I don't think GGG try to reduce drops to prevent some players of getting rich.. but it's true they disabled the chaos recipe by making it only for for items ilvl 60+

I didn't say they reduce the drops directly, but they intervene a lot, to say the least. If I remember correctly, over time they'd reduced the drop rate of high-level uniques at least once, nerfed several crucial recipes (chaos and two different regal ones), introduced new sinks some of which ended up inescapable (like the damned armor/weapon quality consumption mechanic that doesn't make any good), nerfed chance orbs, nerfed quick boss runs... I don't remember if they've ever admitted to tampering with currency drops, but the rest is more than enough anyway. Some of the decisions were right (the Eternal Orb, while close to useless in practice, was still a step in the right direction, and some of the low-level uniques becoming more common was a good thing too), but the rest were bizarre at best.

"

Inexium wrote:

Don't quit the game, you can actually win, if you have a good build and do maps, exalts drop much more there it seems ( you said it yourself you got exalts there)!

I can't say I was really playing to "win", rather I was trying to have fun in the process, and the process for me meant devising particular high-involvement playing styles that were enabled by tightly knit gear combinations, progressing in those styles, and ultimately making them work in various relevant scenarios. Unfortunately that meant I was too dependent on relevant gear, and it sure wasn't cheap in most cases.

I got bored because the time spent playing the game wasn't worth the fun I was getting out of it. Sometimes I'm thinking, "man this new scion class and these new uniques and the animate item skill gonna make it soooo goooood", but then it turns to "meh" as soon as I remember the amount of completely mundane repetition and trade chat activity that surrounds the brief moments of satisfaction. And I was playing on Onslaught and Hardcore before that, too, so the general thrill definitely was there at all times.

"

Inexium wrote:

how some players get ton of exalts by, actually...playing ( doing the chaos recipe they told me).

I tried doing that. The method is good in theory, but heavily bottlenecked in practice by the amount of rare amulets, rings, and belts you find, and the bottleneck is solved either by heavy MF'ing or by heavy trading. Though if you make a complex chain of buying alchs at ≥5:2 chaos and alching white amulets to complete your sets, I suppose it could bring you a net profit over time (a full set's value in shards is appr. 0.1-0.2 alch, so you're getting at least half a chaos back per set completed this way), but it only works as long as you're lacking only one slot. To get one full set of items you need to spend at least a few minutes on the battlefield and a bit of time with stash management; say, 10 minutes per average set cycle if you have decent MF to begin with. That's 1 chaos made per 20 minutes, 1 exalt per 10 hours of play, plus whatever drops in the meantime. Not bad I suppose, but you're stuck with sporking Sarn/Docks to maintain the pace, and that remains the problem if fun is to enter the equation at all. And yes, it's cheaper to RMT: an exalt is what, 4-5$ on HC? For most of us that's at most an hour of any work. When playing a game and attaining wealth in it becomes as mundane as working in real life, you know there's something wrong.

"

Inexium wrote:

Don't you think that : if everybody was doing this, the problem might show up and GGG might make changes ?

People have been doing this for a while, the problem has shown its ugly head in a vast multitude of ways, there were tons of threads on the subject that only I'd posted in, and I'm more than sure the entirety of GGG staff understands that there's something wrong with how things turn out for people who don't exploit the economy. But GGG take the passive stance on the matter because the changes that would fix it would a) require too much work (looking at you, solo self-found league!), or b) alienate the core audience too much by making a decision that would greatly devalue their current wealth (exalt shards and the like).

"

Inexium wrote:

This is way i wanted to share this power/knowledge. An important note : I'v heard Chris joking about what some players were doing : buy in the morning sell in the evening ( or the opposite) i am not sure where i'v heard about it, maybe in gamespot video ( http://au.gamespot.com/shows/now-playing/?event=path-of-exile-2-20131004 )? Can we assume : they don't see the market players as a problem ?

Yes, Chris in particular seems to be fascinated by this exactly as I'm fascinated by videos of nuclear explosions. Fun to watch from a distance, disastrous to be involved in it.

"

Inexium wrote:

Sell boss kills or act runs for players in hurry.

This is actually one of the few non-exploitative ways to gain wealth for a non-MF character, and I fully approve of it. Used it myself quite a number of times; can't say I made much out of it though. The expensive stuff is act 2 and 3 Merc, the rest barely outweighs the time investment (though I suppose Cruel Vaal/Piety + runthrough from WP may be worth it if done continually for a chaos each).

"

moozooh wrote:

500 ex?.. To be honest, I have hard time believing that to be legit stuff, unless it was mostly made prior to important nerfs. I know for a fact that 90+ level players spend vast amounts of resources on rolling lv 74-77 maps and crafting top-end gear that doesn't exist on the market, and they spend vast amounts of time doing maps rather than flipping items all day. I have no reason to believe he gets considerably more than a map's worth out of any of them on average. I would only believe that if he counted all of his items' worth combined (including the endgame gear and rolled maps), not just currency.

It should be pointed out that the players who are truly, truly rich, don't really run maps. They quit leveling around 82-84.

And yeah, the 3000 exalt guy has FOR SURE scammed people out of items by giving them "collateral" worth far less than their item in mirror trades, then bouncing. Other stuff is rumored but not verifiable.

1. No, no believe me there a lot of "normal" players who have 500+ ex ( a lot = 10+ ) and they know the game, it's not like any rmt guy who just buy stuff quickly.

You must ask yourself a question : Why would he buy 3000ex+ ? He did not buy them by RMT.
Here is how he did :
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/379840 among others things we don't know about.

2. True, true they nerfed quick bandits kills, and Eternal orb is not useless, it's a very dangerous orb for the game, a lot of mirror worthy items are showing up, like the Kolp's Dagger which is almost PERFECT!

"

I tried doing that. The method is good in theory, but heavily bottlenecked in practice by the amount of rare amulets, rings, and belts you find, and the bottleneck is solved either by heavy MF'ing or by heavy trading. Though if you make a complex chain of buying alchs at ≥5:2 chaos and alching white amulets to complete your sets, I suppose it could bring you a net profit over time (a full set's value in shards is appr. 0.1-0.2 alch, so you're getting at least half a chaos back per set completed this way), but it only works as long as you're lacking only one slot. To get one full set of items you need to spend at least a few minutes on the battlefield and a bit of time with stash management; say, 10 minutes per average set cycle if you have decent MF to begin with. That's 1 chaos made per 20 minutes, 1 exalt per 10 hours of play, plus whatever drops in the meantime. Not bad I suppose, but you're stuck with sporking Sarn/Docks to maintain the pace, and that remains the problem if fun is to enter the equation at all.

No, when i tell say :

<So i am starting to think, that :

______________________________________
I was wrong, playing the game can beat playing the market, in gaining wealth.>

I truly mean it!

As i said, i want to write a guide about it.
What i can share now is :
- It requires specific builds ( he told me earlier, the build is going to be broken because of Scion )
- It used the chaos recipe
- It requires VERY FAST map clearing.

Here is a sample of our discussion :



Otherwise, this is a good discussion!


Edit : Oh and about having fun in poe, what about supporting this funny idea, nonetheless a "fun" one:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/535144

"

Inexium wrote:

When i wrote this 'guide' i did not know about the power of currencies flipping, i got some PMs from someone who read my thread and explained to me how he performed it, he said his currencies turned to 1ex then from that ex he got little by little 5ex, i don't know how many he has now..( perhaps he used his wealth like i did or he is continuing to gain more.)
And he plays only 3H a day he said. ( compared to players who play no life mode)

gearing up for my duelist just waiting for 1.0.0 to come out. If not, I'd be at 35+ ex.

Don't underestimate currency flipping. Perhaps the richest people during the middle ages and the renaissance were people in the currency exchange business, aka currency flippers. Also, currency flipping is the best way (imho) to stretch your currency further than any other methods. In other words, your profit % is much much higher if you can do proper currency flip than with other methods of buying and selling. Currently, on paper calculation, for every exalt I spend, I get 1.56 back. That's a profit of 35.89%. Compare that to flipping concrete gears you can probably get 5-10 exalts back but you have to spend 40-50 exalts.

As for the methods that I use, I won't share them. It's really a joy to see through a loop hole in the exchange rates and relying on that to make your own profit, without ripping anyone off. I'm serious. No ripping off.

"

r3val4ti0n wrote:

"

Inexium wrote:

When i wrote this 'guide' i did not know about the power of currencies flipping, i got some PMs from someone who read my thread and explained to me how he performed it, he said his currencies turned to 1ex then from that ex he got little by little 5ex, i don't know how many he has now..( perhaps he used his wealth like i did or he is continuing to gain more.)
And he plays only 3H a day he said. ( compared to players who play no life mode)

gearing up for my duelist just waiting for 1.0.0 to come out. If not, I'd be at 35+ ex.

Don't underestimate currency flipping. Perhaps the richest people during the middle ages and the renaissance were people in the currency exchange business, aka currency flippers. Also, currency flipping is the best way (imho) to stretch your currency further than any other methods. In other words, your profit % is much much higher if you can do proper currency flip than with other methods of buying and selling. Currently, on paper calculation, for every exalt I spend, I get 1.56 back. That's a profit of 35.89%. Compare that to flipping concrete gears you can probably get 5-10 exalts back but you have to spend 40-50 exalts.

As for the methods that I use, I won't share them. It's really a joy to see through a loop hole in the exchange rates and relying on that to make your own profit, without ripping anyone off. I'm serious. No ripping off.

The best thing in writing this sharing knowledge "gift" threads is that you will share your methods with me if i asked you to do by pm ! ( btw, tell me more by pm please )

Public question, how many hours per day are you playing/flipping ?
Another question, it's my thread who helped you open your eyes ?