Have a glimpse of the market and How to make wealth in PoE.

"

Duchan wrote:

@OP
You just basically said that if I am making any kind of a trade with you I am being ripped-off.
Ok noted, you're in my "do not trade with under any circumstances" list :)
Also you mention that there is group of people you call friends who are doing the same thing.
Can you list them all, so I can add them to my list?

Thanks!

If you are reading the forums it means you are not playing the game which means i already traded with someone else.
And BRO before you notice it you have already traded with me.. you shadow has, probably, been traded to me and sold out to some weird wealthy guys from Oriath. I wonder what they do with them..

Oh and they started asking for clothes and wifes..

So check yourself, be careful and stay safe ;D

Edit : ninja by @reboticon : Brilliant answer!

"

Duchan wrote:

Wait what? There are already official Market prices established by GGG? So why it isn't incorporated in the game already, like with vendors, where you can buy and sell with set up prices, therefore you can't make any wealth doing so.
Oh right, NOOOW I get it, you just want to justify the behaviaour where someone makes wealth on someone elses account just because they don't have the sufficient knowledge, patience or confidence.

If someone brags they made their wealth by going after the poor, I don't want to have anything to do with them.
And if someone's making trades only to make wealth in a game, I don't want to do any trades with them.
When I'm trading I'm trading something I don't need = very low value to me, therefore I sell it very cheap according to your made up market prices, so I rather help out somene who needs it, by doing so, than just to make some snob wealthier. Therefore I'd like to keep a list of players like that to avoid them at any costs.

No, there are "standard" not official prices dictated by the invisible hand of a free market that are easily researched using poe.xyz.is.

For instance: Searching for a Voltaxic Rift bow in Anarchy will get you:
http://poe.xyz.is/search?league=Anarchy&name=voltaxic&rarity=unique&time=2013-09-09

Of those listed with buyouts, one is priced at 30 ex, one is priced at 24ex, one is priced at 23ex, one is priced at 22ex. We can reasonably conclude that the standard market value of this item is around 23ex.

So now OP offers 17ex on a voltaxic for sale. It is 100% up to the seller whether he wants to sell it for 17ex. Maybe he has a sweet line on a soultaker and selling it now enables him to buy it, so he sells. Or seller has all the items he needs and wants pure profit, so he doesn't sell, and holds out for 23ex. Maybe seller is like me, and doesn't want the hassle of dealing with all the messages about this bow, so he talks OP up to 19, and sells for that. He loses out on 4 ex, but he doesn't have to mess with it anymore.

It's the exact same thingas using a realtor to sell your house. Or buying something from the convenience market instead of the super market and paying a slightly higher amount for the convenience.

I doubt OP wants to trade with you anyways, since you said it yourself, you are poor.

"

Duchan wrote:

"

reboticon wrote:

Is he ripping off the people selling it below the established market price? Nope, not at all. For instance, I sell all my drops -below- the established market price by 10-25%. Why? So they sell faster and I can get back to playing. I don't care one way or the other how big of a pile of exalts I have. That's why I mentioned several pages earlier that if you loathe the trading game like I do, it can be worth it to find one person to unload all of your stuff to at a discounted rate.

Wait what? There are already official Market prices established by GGG? So why it isn't incorporated in the game already, like with vendors, where you can buy and sell with set up prices, therefore you can't make any wealth doing so.
Oh right, NOOOW I get it, you just want to justify the behaviaour where someone makes wealth on someone elses account just because they don't have the sufficient knowledge, patience or confidence.

If someone brags they made their wealth by going after the poor, I don't want to have anything to do with them.
And if someone's making trades only to make wealth in a game, I don't want to do any trades with them.

Let's get real about some things.

1) The majority of the traders who are getting ripped off, know they are getting ripped off, and do so deliberately. reboticon is your typical trading "sucker." He deliberately sells things below market values, precisely because he doesn't enjoy trading. Does he feel like a sucker? No. He has a reason for doing things the way he does them, and it's logical to an extent.

2) The majority of "master traders" are feeding off the reboticons of the world. They wait for him and those like him to make offers, they know they can get something below market values, and they buy it off of him as soon as he offers it. Thus most arbitrage folks aren't engaging in "behaviaour [sic] where someone makes wealth on someone elses account just because they don't have the sufficient knowledge, patience or confidence," nor have they "made their wealth by going after the poor." They are simply specializing in one thing, while other players specialize in another. It's not that reboticon doesn't have knowledge or patience or confidence; it's that he chooses to apply those traits towards different objectives.

3) These players you demonize are actually a good thing. reboticon and those like him don't want to spend hours haggling for the best prices; they want to get back to farming. A huge population of players depends on these "master traders" to quickly unload their farming finds and get back to playing the actual game.

TL;DR: You can't rape the willing, but you can fuck them. Repetitively. And more likely than not, they'll enjoy it too.

Very eloquently explained, Scrotie. You certainly know how to turn a phrase ^^, and this is exactly correct. I'm at work for 10 hours a day, I'm at work slacking right now. When I get to play, I want to PLAY, not sit there and spam WTS/WTB. I only care about being "rich" in game to the point of gearing my characters. Anything after that is just a bonus. What would hit "master traders" hardest if it GGG implements a way to trade items through forums. If I could actually be trading items RIGHT NOW, I'd probably be doing that.

I needed 10 regrets to finish up the last of the passives challenge. After "WTB Regrets 1:1 Chaos" for about twenty minutes and not getting them, I changed to "OVERPAYING FOR REGRETS 1:3 Fusings." I got them in less than 2 minutes. I got fucked, and I thanked every one of them.

I sell cheap things and I know that if they are linked (5 or 6) I could sell it for much more but I don´t have patience to waste my time with it, neither trading all the time. My pleasure of game is fighting against monsters and use some strategy to develop builds and gears.

Let's talk about real life for a sec.

There are few kinds of ways how to get wealthy, in fact just two.

Either you did something valuable for the world (or local community) and you are being appropriately awarded. (But only an unnoticeable fragment of people, who did something valuable are appropriately awarded)

Or you inherited the wealth from your ancestors.

Or you won a lottery.

Or you wanted to be wealthy, you studied the ways how to become wealthy, and yo made one of the ways happen, because you had the skills for that (Here again only a fragment of people have the skills to actually accomplish that).

But to sum that up, there are two ways:
A) You don't have the desire to be wealthy, but someone/something provides you with that luxury.
B) Or you have the desire to be wealthy and you made it happen.
(Nowadays a very high percentage of the world's civilization has this desire)

I can tell you that 100% of those who have the desire to be wealthy never accomplish it by doing something good and its always on account of others.

And its a life choice.
And the same goes for the game. It's a choice. Make the one that suits you best, That's perfectly OK. But anytime you will try to justify the one that does no good for nobody else but you, well then, try to realize what you are actually doing.

If I wasn't clear: Intentions are what matters. If your intention is selfish, you cannot justify it by doing stuff that appeals to the eye as good or smart, no matter how hard you try.

There is a difference between :


Have the desire to And acting.


There is a difference between :

- Truly having the desire to+Acting in purpose
AND
- Having the desire to and choose weither : to wait for it OR go take it on account of others.



Yes if i choose that magnificent girl and choose her and took her, providing she choose me aswell. I would have it on account of other males, is that bad ? Maybe only if you are jealous, like i am toward Steve Jobs ( meh not really^^ )

So there are 3 kind of peoples :

1) Those who want it but prefer fulfilling quick desires like sitting on a couch.
2) Those who want it and STRIVE for it.
3) Those who want it but do not want to pass through the struggle of doing it ( Thief, scammer, rmt?..)

"

Duchan wrote:

I can tell you that 100% of those who have the desire to be wealthy never accomplish it by doing something good and its always on account of others.

Because the Steve Jobs and the Bill Gates and the Henry Fords of the world never did anything good for anyone.

The truth: the path to becoming fantastically wealthy is to give the world something it needs... that is, to do a lot of good. People like Mark Zuckerberg get all the little details of their ethics scrutinized, and I'm not saying they're perfect by any means (perhaps even backstabbing each other to be "the one")... but the common denominator is providing the masses with something they want, making their lives better.

Thieves don't make it as far. People aren't keen on being stolen from. But you can't rape the willing.

"

Duchan wrote:

And its a life choice.
And the same goes for the game. It's a choice. Make the one that suits you best, That's perfectly OK. But anytime you will try to justify the one that does no good for nobody else but you, well then, try to realize what you are actually doing.

As I've already explained, I hate trading. So the guy who will pay me 19 exalt on the spot for a 23 exalt item is doing me a favor. From my perspective he now has to play trade channel to make 4 exalt orbs, and I already made 19. He likes playing trade channel (yes, something is wrong with him from my perspective), so to him he gets to make 4 exalts without having to endlessly grind. We both win.

It's completely different than ripping off a noob for his exalt orb by telling him it's not worth much and giving him a Limbsplitter for it.

"

Inexium wrote:

There is a difference between :


So there are 3 kind of peoples :

1) Those who want it but prefer fulfilling quick desires like sitting on a couch.
2) Those who want it and STRIVE for it.
3) Those who want it but do not want to pass through the struggle of doing it ( Thief, scammer, rmt?..)

There is a 4th kind of person. The kind that strives for it and fails. Either he wasn't good enough or life threw him terrible obstacles.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Duchan wrote:

I can tell you that 100% of those who have the desire to be wealthy never accomplish it by doing something good and its always on account of others.

Because the Steve Jobs and the Bill Gates and the Henry Fords of the world never did anything good for anyone.

The truth: the path to becoming fantastically wealthy is to give the world something it needs... that is, to do a lot of good. People like Mark Zuckerberg get all the little details of their ethics scrutinized, and I'm not saying they're perfect by any means (perhaps even backstabbing each other to be "the one")... but the common denominator is providing the masses with something they want, making their lives better.

Thieves don't make it as far. People aren't keen on being stolen from. But you can't rape the willing.

Well maybe I haven't stated myself correctly, those who act on that desire. They didn't start thinking how do I become wealthy ... hmmm lets make a computer ... they are the A section.
Now when they are at a stage where they are already wealthy and are thinking, how do I make more money .. they are B section and stopped bringing good.

If you people can't see the difference then there is no sense in arguing about it.

But at least I got you guys talking :)
So maybe one day ...