General Discussion - What makes a bow good? - Forum

" Nephalim wrote: That is, over 320 dps with most of it physical? Remember even then, it won't have 100% accuracy and still be able to crit, so you have to subtract whatever % accuracy off the char using the bow has to get a fair comparison.....	Posted by MonstaMunch#6519 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:04:56 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" MonstaMunch wrote: " tikitaki wrote: i should clarify: lioneye is the most cost effective bow in the game. it's a good overall bow with good attack speed. it has no flat lightning damage. that's a problem. it has low base crit chance. huge problem. the dps caps out at ~330. rares can be much much better. even tri-eles, mostly because of the importance of base crit chance (the crit chance on your weapon while using an attack). if you are running crit, you can basically count on gaining about 10 - 12% crit chance by switching from lioneye to a good rare crit bow, plus however much extra dps it has. im not dissing it. its a great starter bow, but you can def. beat it. The 10-12% you're talking about doesn't exist unless you have capped or very close to capped accuracy. I've tried a lot of the best bows out there and my shadow still uses a Lioneyes. You can get higher dps out of a thicket (ele or phys) but you need 6 near perfect rolls, and then a build with decent accuracy on top. Sure it exists. These are relative percentages. You're talking about critting 45% vs critting 33% of the time. That is a net 36% increase in critting. Lioneye has 100% accuracy. For it to be equivalent, we would thus put your accuracy without Lioneye at 74%. 74? That's not hard to beat. Last edited by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:15:05 PM	Posted by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:05:08 PM Quote this Post
" tikitaki wrote: " MonstaMunch wrote: " tikitaki wrote: i should clarify: lioneye is the most cost effective bow in the game. it's a good overall bow with good attack speed. it has no flat lightning damage. that's a problem. it has low base crit chance. huge problem. the dps caps out at ~330. rares can be much much better. even tri-eles, mostly because of the importance of base crit chance (the crit chance on your weapon while using an attack). if you are running crit, you can basically count on gaining about 10 - 12% crit chance by switching from lioneye to a good rare crit bow, plus however much extra dps it has. im not dissing it. its a great starter bow, but you can def. beat it. The 10-12% you're talking about doesn't exist unless you have capped or very close to capped accuracy. I've tried a lot of the best bows out there and my shadow still uses a Lioneyes. You can get higher dps out of a thicket (ele or phys) but you need 6 near perfect rolls, and then a build with decent accuracy on top. Sure it exists. These are relative percentages. You're talking about critting 45% vs critting 33% of the time. That is a net 36% increase in critting. Lioneye has 100% accuracy. For it to be equivalent, we would thus put your accuracy without Lioneye at 64%. 64%? That's not hard to beat. I don't follow where you're getting those numbers from. Could you elaborate? Edit: Or are you talking about a build with no crit passives or gear? In that case yeah of course there's a difference. But once the numbers get high enough for the relative difference to be minimal (as they do) the accuracy ends up playing a larger factor. The relative numbers you're talking about aren't static unless you're talking about making a naked build..... Last edited by MonstaMunch#6519 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:08:21 PM	Posted by MonstaMunch#6519 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:06:08 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
sorry, 74%. well 45/33 = 1.36....so, critting 36% more often than a lioneye. a lioneye has 100% chance to hit, so hitting 36% less often = 1/ 1.36 = .74 if you really want to get all technical, Accu * CrittC = NetCritC with lioneye 1 * .33 = .33 with a rare bow x * .45 = .33 so x = .74, or 74% accuracy, or the break even point. edit: these numbere are not naked. they are assuming you have a giant crit chance from both gear, passives, and power charges. on the order of 600% crit chance = crit chance on bow * crit chance modifier. Last edited by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:14:54 PM	Posted by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:10:38 PM Quote this Post
Are you assuming your thicket bow is some sort of perfect 5 modder? phys%,phys flat, light or phys/acc , ias , 38 crit? IGN: Arlianth Check out my LA build: 1782214	Posted by Nephalim#2731 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:15:15 PM Quote this Post
" Nephalim wrote: Are you assuming your thicket bow is some sort of perfect 5 modder? phys%,phys flat, light or phys/acc , ias , 38 crit? i dont think it takes a "perfect 5 modder" to beat a lioneye, and i dont really agree that those mods are "perfect," but i think that they would be sufficient to beat a lioneye. so if you want to run some numbers on those you should lol, it will be a lot more effective than LG Last edited by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:19:12 PM	Posted by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:18:28 PM Quote this Post
" tikitaki wrote: " Nephalim wrote: Are you assuming your thicket bow is some sort of perfect 5 modder? phys%,phys flat, light or phys/acc , ias , 38 crit? i dont think it takes a "perfect 5 modder" to beat a lioneye, and i dont really agree that those mods are "perfect," but i think that they would be sufficient to beat a lioneye. well what kind of rare thicket bow are you basing your comparison on? IGN: Arlianth Check out my LA build: 1782214	Posted by Nephalim#2731 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:19:39 PM Quote this Post
" Nephalim wrote: " tikitaki wrote: " Nephalim wrote: Are you assuming your thicket bow is some sort of perfect 5 modder? phys%,phys flat, light or phys/acc , ias , 38 crit? i dont think it takes a "perfect 5 modder" to beat a lioneye, and i dont really agree that those mods are "perfect," but i think that they would be sufficient to beat a lioneye. well what kind of rare thicket bow are you basing your comparison on? it doesn't really matter. i just said the one you mentioned would be sufficient to win against a lioneye, so you can use that example as the basis.	Posted by tikitaki#3010 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:20:37 PM Quote this Post
Unfortunately you can't really advocate a bow that costs a mirror + fee to a player who can not shell out 2 exalts for a lionseye. If you were to make a case for what is the best bow assuming you 1) had 600+ exalts 2) these items actually existed, then sure, perfectly rolled thickets can definately beats lionseye. IGN: Arlianth Check out my LA build: 1782214	Posted by Nephalim#2731 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:24:00 PM Quote this Post
" tikitaki wrote: it doesn't really matter. i just said the one you mentioned would be sufficient to win against a lioneye, so you can use that example as the basis. It does matter, because you're giving specific figures that don't seem to be based on any specific item. He was giving an example of 5 perfect mods, which I already said from the start can beat a lioneyes (I think my words were "6 near perfect"). No one disputed that. The OP was asking about good bows because he can't afford a Lioneyes. A thicket with the mods you're talking about would cost many times more than a Lioneyes, and would be far harder to obtain. Last edited by MonstaMunch#6519 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:25:54 PM	Posted by MonstaMunch#6519 on Sep 9, 2013, 10:25:21 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post