One-week "Resistance Penalty Testing" Hardcore Ladder Race

Same as last week I made a post Here giving some feedback. Don't think the feedback is as good as last weeks maybe, but who knows, maybe someone will get something out of it.
Race statistics

http://poestatistics.com/events/1-week-hc-res-test/

1395 deaths, I think the resistance penalty is now too high.
http://path-of-exile.pl Polska strona

http://poestatistics.com Ladder statistics
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Grom wrote:
Race statistics

http://poestatistics.com/events/1-week-hc-res-test/

1395 deaths, I think the resistance penalty is now too high.

Dont be silly lol

One-week Hardcore Ladder Race (Aug 27 Start)
622 Survivors, 1441 Deaths, 300 Level 23+ Deaths

One-week Hardcore Ladder Race (Sep 12 Start)
601 Survivors, 1402 Deaths, 270 Level 23+ Deaths

"Resistance Penalty Testing" Hardcore Ladder Race (Sep 24 Start)
548 Survivors, 1395 Deaths, 283 Level 23+ Deaths

The death rate seems to have held steady with the participation rate as well

EDIT: I cant find out how to download the whole files from PoE statistics, so its a bit hard to do averages and such.
Last edited by Metronomy#6891 on Oct 1, 2012, 5:04:02 AM
I enjoyed this event as usual. I love the longer term races, since I am able to develop a character so much more. Keep 'em comin!

My very generalized feedback on the new resist penalties is possibly completely tainted by my natural inclination to max resists on gear. I am rapidly getting the idea that some folks chose in the past to ignore resists altogether. In which case, the new changes may have been quite shocking! =)

On a more helpful note, I would like to say that when thinking over this particular event, I considered for the first time helping Kraityn(sp?). Also, I considered the new resist nodes. I ended up deciding that if I would choose to take even 1 of those new 15% nodes, that helping the resist bandit was the more profitable choice. In the end, I went for neither option.

My analysis here is that it is easy enough to get the resists you need when you need them. Similarly, those 15% resist nodes are just unattractive. I can really only see someone speccing into one out of dire need for some reason, and then speccing out once they have higher quality gear.

I would suggest that all starting areas have something as nice as the 'walker' nodes that the witch can choose. Those nodes do something valuable beyond having a simple resist that you can achieve through better gearing. They do not have to include elemental damages, or even damage at all, just something that feels more like progress for your character.

If giving everyone access to 'nice' resist nodes feels wrong for the game, please consider turning those 15% nodes into something more creative like 10% lightning resist w/ 5% lightning resist cap increase. Something like that *might* be more convincing to someone.

Anyhow, thank you for a great game and great events. =)
Total deaths/death rates may have been about the same, but the changes appear to've really slowed people down.

Looking at the characters ranked at 1/25/50/75/100/200/300/400/500

Sept24: 78/60/50/40/33/18/ 9/4/1
Sept12: 78/70/60/50/41/24/11/6/2
Aug 27: 76/66/52/42/40/24/12/5/2

The Sept24 race showed a larger penalty, especially at the top, vs the Sept12 race than the Aug27 one; but the numbers at the 200/300 are significantly lower.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
"
Summoner wrote:
The Sept24 race showed a larger penalty, especially at the top, vs the Sept12 race than the Aug27 one; but the numbers at the 200/300 are significantly lower.


It's possible that's just because less people bothered with multiple chars. I know this race I didn't try again and get as high as the first two.
I participated in the event to test the Resistance Pentaly impact on my gameplay.

I played a Templar.
( note that I have never played Templar before)
I had a very limited time to play, so I couldn't test it properly.
I ended up reaching Vaal at Ruthless achieving 50 lvls.
So I havent felt the full -75% penalty in Merciless along with the monsters growing stronger.

But,

I had my resistances around 60% for all elements at Ruthless.
I had 1.4K life anf 0.7K ES with 40% estimated damage reduction from armour rating. I was faaaar from near death experiences the whole time.
I have not experienced any troubles finding good enough resistance gear.
And I didn't felt that I had to sacrifice any life mods in exchange to gain more resist equip.
I found that for Templar resistance passives were very easily accessable and strongly rewarding.
+10 all to start with, when picking the elemental damge.
+15 all diamond skin, along the way for the Marauders life bonuses.
And the +15 single resist along with the appropriate element damage in the Witch tree.
All that felt like I was given those resists for free.
I don't think that Rangers would have such easy situation as I felt with the Templar.

In conclusion the following would catch my feelings about the Resistance penalty:
"Wait, what? There was a resistance penalty?"
"
Hilbert wrote:
A player that logged in again and received a message for example :"Your character left at 45% HP+ES while monsters were nearby, that's X more than a regular quit. You character has lost X% experience of his current level"
That's retarded. Either do a timeout or do nothing. 5 seconds timeout should be enough, you will die if surrounded and with no escape and it's about the same as 6 seconds connection heartbeat that protects chars when disconnected (it saved me many times, I play fair but the only available connection in place where I live sucks). It will be better to put a town portal and enter it than log out in such case.

Punishing player by detecting log outs in danger is stupid. People may log out for many different reasons, including fire in house or having pregnant wife with waters broken. While such people won't care much about their characters, there is no need to punish them. If they leave and die - fair enough. If they drink granite flask and log out instead of taking portal because it's faster, or because they didn't think much about their exit, let them do it. You can't punish normal casual players because of someone who is exploiting a faulty mechanic, even if it's many more exploiters than casual players.

As for introducing level restrictions, I agree, but only partly. It would be enough if level restrictions were even very low, even better if they were introduced in game mechanics. For example Merveil casts a very strong cold snap at low level characters, and Oversoul casts a very fast and very strong lightning at low level characters. It could be as low as level level 5-6 for merveil and level 15 for Oversoul.
I don't like level restrictions like in D3 where you need level 50 for hell while it's easy to get there at level 45 when rushing. I feel that players should also be able to make challenges and try defeating bosses at low levels. However, it should not be possible to have level 1 characters in level 60 maps.

A different, simple and 100% efficient solution for party abusing:
Always make monsters stronger in area, but only give benefits when party members are nearby. So if 2 people are in party doing content and they are both near, they would both get experience for killing monsters and they would get item drops for 2 players. If 2 players split and fight in completely different places of area, they would only get as much loot and experience as if they were soloing area. They will still be able to find exists faster by exploring 2 parts of map at once if they want to rush, however they won't get more loot and experience total as compared to single player clearing area. Maybe experience for parties could be higher then (by a few %, just to make up for occasional splitting)
Last edited by globbi#6883 on Oct 1, 2012, 11:53:31 AM
As promised here's my little feedback.

As some of you may already know I played a Groundslam Ranger in this weeks event. When I looked at the new Ranger starting area, i realised that there are amazing defensive options available, on the physical side even a lot better than for Marauders. Since i've never had any problems with elemental damage I decided to try this out, which was before the announcement of this league.

Basically this build could as well be done as a Marauder, very early and towards endgame i think even a little better. So here's what I ended up with:



If you are interested in how I progressed through the difficulties and what problems I faced you might want to read the following.

Spoiler
I started as a Marauder to get a Heavy Strike and a Groundslam gem. Then I finally started my Ranger.

In my first try I managed to die in Fellshrine due to a serious real life issue that forced me to move away from my computer without saving my character.

When I had overcome the loss the next day I decided to give it another shot and I started another Ranger. Early game is pretty similar to Marauder besides two things. First I used pure evasion gear, second I had serious strength issues. Before facing Brutus I wanted to pick up the 30 strength node to be able to use a Tribal Maul. Until lvl 20, where I was able to use an Onyx Amulet, I couldn't upgrade my weapon. Soon after that I could start picking up some strength nodes and from then on, strength issues were solved.

Basically what I did to progress was to grind Ledge and Fellshrine on almost every difficulty (except normal Fellshrine) until I felt ready to move on. In dangerous areas (either due to lack of resists or because of generally dangerous monsters) I tried to avoid fighting at all. When I felt relatively save i killed huge groups while progressing.

Buildwise I rushed Iron Reflexes, then moved on to Golem's blood, also picking up the health nodes. Then I went straight for Resolute Technique on the shortest path, later I refunded some of the points used here. Due to the need of resists, I went for Diamond Skin next and then picked up Unwavering Stance. At that point the build started to "feel good" and everything I picked up afterwards was just to either make up for lack of gear or to provide tankiness or increased damage. The reason why I avoided Blood Magic was that I couldn't have used Hatred then which would've resulted in a great dps-loss. Besides Hatred I ran Grace because of the extremely good synergy with Iron Reflexes.

The resist gear I obtained throughout the race was pretty mediocre, which was also the reason why I ended up picking up several 15% resist-nodes. For example in merciless Western Forest I had -28% fire resist which ended up in almost getting oneshot by Martyrs. At some point I was carrying 9 pieces of jewelry in my inventory to be able to adapt to as many possible combinations of elemental damage as possible. When I approached endgame I decided to just max all my resist by picking up nodes since in maps there is no way to tell which forms of elemental damage would await me. From time to time I had to refund some points to make gear upgrades possible without losing maxed resists.

Helping Kraityn wasn't an option since I desperately needed skill points early to finish my core build and later on it was pretty obvious that the health from oak is simply worth more.

The most valuable skill throughout the race for me was Enduring Cry. Early the 20% extra resist were almost mandatory to survive in certain areas, later on the extra physical damage reduction together with enfeeble enabled me to tank almost any physical damage sources, which was necessary because my gear was mainly focused on resists.

In the end the playstyle was very similar to the wellknown Groundslam Marauder, it just had more style as a Ranger in my opinion. ;)


For those who dont believe my gear was crap, hers's proof of that:
Spoiler
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Finally my opinion on the resist penalties and some other things:

- All in all the resist penalty is a good thing since it finally makes resistance on gear mean something. There's just one thing that needs further tweaking in my opinion: The Skill Tree. The way it was during the league the resistance penalty strongly restricted gear choice and I think it would be better and more fun to be able to chose less resists on gear and therefor invest more skillpoints to make up for that. To make this possible all classes need access to good resistance passives without moving to the starting area of another class. Also i would appreciate if the 15% nodes would get a small buff to either provide more resists or an additional effect.

- Not the biggest issue but to me it feels wrong that in order to get the highest amount of armor (which is very important with pure armor builds), its the most effective to wear pure pure evasion gear and take Iron Reflexes. In my opinion euqally good pure armor gear should at least be able to provide the same amount of armor as evasion gear.

- I think the Groundslam nerf was not needed. The Skill is very strong early game but falls off late, which seems balanced to me. Now that Groundslam is weaker it may be on even ground with other melee abilities but I think it would have been better to buff other melee abilities, since melee combat has great risks and you should be rewarded for taking those. For example when I played with a summoner witch it turned out that she was as tanky as me but did not need to go anywhere close to enemies and also her minions protected her from ranged attacks. It only seems fair to me if a melee character is able to put out a lot more damage since he puts himself in a lot more danger in order to do any damage. (yes even if he doesn't have to get right next to the enemy for Groundslam!)


Thats all that was on my mind for now. Thanks GGG for making a great game, keep this up to make it even better!
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@Balko
Interesting feedback Balko, good read. Also the build you made is very similar to the choices I make when playing either ranger or marauder (except for IR, that one is something I am strongly against and wish they deleted it from the game completely or change its function drastically). Also you give us proof of your crap gear, well, I don't call gear like that crap, more like good gear. Definitely above average of what I usually use.

Anyway I hope they reconsider the fix of melee aoe skill balance. As in buff the other two aoes and tweak GS somehow. (Not like:'Hmm many people use a good skill, so -20% it is. Problem solved.')
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