Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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iamstryker wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

But this can be fixed on the current leagues if GGG lessens the gap between the rich and the poor. Basically everything a lot of players are complaining about can be fixed on the current leagues, apart from the part where you'd still have to sell your drops. But that can also be made a lot less of a hassle.

The game is about to be released so I'm not going to sit around and hope that orbs and crafting are going to be significantly changed.

Are you really arguing that people in this thread who want SFL will not like it because they can't immediately get new uniques? Ya thats a big difference to the current leagues but I think you overestimate how much people care. For example I would continue to play standard and also try out a SFL so I could get the best of both worlds, so there is no problem with that at all.

First off, it's not an immediate process. I know you really don't like trading, but the way it is now is far from D3's auction house where you can buy instantly, and you still earn the items since it is your currency that pays for them.

Secondly, it's just one of the flaws in playing SFL. Not being able to sell your drops or trade them to friends, still being forced to farm docks/lunaris instead of progressing into maps, and still being far less effective than those with MF gear. Then there's the negative effect on other leagues and the possibility that GGG's time will be spent on this instead of fixing the aforementioned issues.

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Novalisk wrote:

First off, it's not an immediate process.

Its not a process they have started or even discussed recently. By all accounts they like the drop rates and how crafting is being utilized. I don't see any reason at all to think that many of the reasons people want a SFL will ever go away or get a lot better.

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I know you really don't like trading, but the way it is now is far from D3's auction house where you can buy instantly, and you still earn the items since it is your currency that pays for them.

I support the idea more because I think it sounds fun and less because I am unhappy with the current game. Its flawed but I still really enjoy it.

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Secondly, it's just one of the flaws in playing SFL.

I don't consider that a flaw at all. Some people love it and some people don't, thats how it always is.

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Then there's the negative effect on other leagues and the possibility that GGG's time will be spent on this instead of fixing the aforementioned issues.

I really don't like to sit and argue about GGG's time. Only they can tell us how much of their time would be used on this league and how much resources they would have to devote to it, otherwise its pure speculation.

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Novalisk wrote:

No. According to me, because you can't trade your ability to experiment with builds is significantly hindered

Not really. The difference is, you like to plan a build then buy whatever you need to make the build work. I, on the other hand, find an item worth keeping then try and decide how best to use it.

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Novalisk wrote:

So basically, you have no answer to this issue.

I never said I had. To be honest, I seem to have lost track of what you believe the issue is, apart from not being able to trade.

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Novalisk wrote:

So consensus here seems to be "The ability to get excited for drops is more important for us than being able to play around with interesting uniques".

You seem to be the only one getting excited about unique items.

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Novalisk wrote:

Build-defining uniques? yeah, because getting uniques in SFL is a crapshoot.

Indeed. now you're starting to get the drift.

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Novalisk wrote:

Item improvements in general? Not that big of a difference, really. Unless
you're specifically looking for a hard-to-craft item that fits your other items (to maximize your resists or something), in which case trading is better.

Trading makes it easier to obtain any item, particularly an item one feels is necessary for any given build. Granted, I might get lucky and something special may drop but even if it does, there's no guarantee it would be appropriate for my current or any desired build. Trading removes RNG from the equation.

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Novalisk wrote:

Secondly, it's just one of the flaws in playing SFL. Not being able to sell your drops or trade them to friends, still being forced to farm docks/lunaris instead of progressing into maps, and still being far less effective than those with MF gear.

This is your perception based on how you believe the game should be played. Not everyone shares that view. Moreover, if someone likes to play the trading game they'll be unlikely to join SFL.

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Novalisk wrote:

Then there's the negative effect on other leagues and the possibility that GGG's time will be spent on this instead of fixing the aforementioned issues.

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

First off, it's not an immediate process.

Its not a process they have started or even discussed recently.

I was talking about trading and how you don't just "immediately" get items. Regardless, trading is something GGG are still working on.

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By all accounts they like the drop rates and how crafting is being utilized. I don't see any reason at all to think that many of the reasons people want a SFL will ever go away or get a lot better.

People have been complaining about being stuck in docks and only being able to buy upgrades for a while now. SFL is just running away from the problem.

And SFL isn't necessarily the "easy fix" either. The problem of MF geared, dock farming players who trade being 10 times more time efficient than those who don't(which makes exalt crafting only viable for the top 1%) can also be fixed, simply by making maps a lot more rewarding for non-MF players through tweaking some numbers. Trading improvements are already being worked on.

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Novalisk wrote:

I was talking about trading and how you don't just "immediately" get items. Regardless, trading is something GGG are still working on.

Improving the trade system will be great for the current leagues but I don't really think its going to do much to change the minds of people interested in a self found league. Also, trading right now is definitely immediate compared to a self found league where you have to hope something drops. It doesn't matter if you have to farm currency or not, I am referring to when you have the currency and then have the ability to make a relatively quick trade for something you want.

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By all accounts they like the drop rates and how crafting is being utilized. I don't see any reason at all to think that many of the reasons people want a SFL will ever go away or get a lot better.

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SFL is just running away from the problem.

Improvements can be made sure but at this point there is no way to assume that the game will change that drastically. The devs obviously like the drop rates, they like the way the game is balanced, the game will always be balanced with trading in mind, crafting will always be inferior to trading. Hopefully magic find gets nerfed but that won't change the desire for a SFL IMO.

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Trading improvements are already being worked on.

I hope so, been waiting forever. But again, that really won't change the desire for SFL. Trading will simply become more efficient and easier which will only reinforce it as the superior way to "play" the game.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

Secondly, it's just one of the flaws in playing SFL. Not being able to sell your drops or trade them to friends, still being forced to farm docks/lunaris instead of progressing into maps, and still being far less effective than those with MF gear.

This is your perception based on how you believe the game should be played. Not everyone shares that view. Moreover, if someone likes to play the trading game they'll be unlikely to join SFL.

Nonsense. Making maps more rewarding, lessening the discrepancy between MF and non-MF players, and making trading not require hours of forum thread maintenance is a straight-out improvement. I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

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Kellog wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

Then there's the negative effect on other leagues and the possibility that GGG's time will be spent on this instead of fixing the aforementioned issues.

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true.

Just because you keep ignoring it, doesn't mean it isn't a factor.

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Novalisk wrote:

Nonsense. Making maps more rewarding, lessening the discrepancy between MF and non-MF players, and making trading not require hours of forum thread maintenance is a straight-out improvement. I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

He was saying that not being able to trade is NOT a flaw but just your opinion. Yes what you listed would be improvements, that doesn't negate the previous statement.

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Novalisk wrote:

Just because you keep ignoring it, doesn't mean it isn't a factor.

He should ignore it. Since when should people put aside what the think could make the game better simply because it might require GGG to do more work?

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iamstryker wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

Nonsense. Making maps more rewarding, lessening the discrepancy between MF and non-MF players, and making trading not require hours of forum thread maintenance is a straight-out improvement. I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

He was saying that not being able to trade is NOT a flaw but just your opinion. Yes what you listed would be improvements, that doesn't negate the previous statement.

Thing is, you can choose not to buy items and instead use currency for crafting in the current leagues. Yes, it is currently not an effective way to play the game, but that can be fixed by making the improvements mentioned above.