Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

"

Novalisk wrote:

Just how does GGG is creating new leagues equate to creating more leagues in addition to those? GGG's resources aren't unlimited, and to think that is being naive.

Chris mentioned in a post previously that they had in place a system, where making changes to accommodate new leagues and races, was relatively trivial. It's not like they're reinventing the wheel for every new league.

"

Novalisk wrote:

I'm not saying they aren't going to happen, but there's been no indication of them coming in the near future.

Just pointing out that my comments were far from "baseless".

"

Novalisk wrote:

Both with and without self-found, builds can be "finished". That's not a part of my argument. My point is that in self-found, the best builds don't become harder to obtain over time, so people will just get the best builds. In regular leagues, best builds become increasingly expensive, making other builds viable in the process.

Very few people who play true self-found will ever have the best of anything, build wise. Whereas those who trade can, if nothing else, have extremely good, even BiS, for some items.

"

Novalisk wrote:

MF makes your play-time significantly more efficient. The difference in efficiency between a person who doesn't have MF and a person who does is huge. Same goes for trading. The difference between being able to sell your items and not selling your items is also huge.

If MF becomes non-mandatory, and trading becomes a lot easier (with item flipping still being difficult), then there will be a lot less people who won't have to sell their exalted orbs to make progress, as they could sell their "trash" instead.

I'm sure those who like the trading game will rejoice if your ideas see the light or day, unfortunately, they have little to do with those of us who wish for SFL. Please try and understand, it really doesn't matter to SFL advocates, what GGG does with the trade system, unless they remove it entirely.

"

Novalisk wrote:

Oh, not everyone will get the best build. But people who care about efficiency will have a lot more incentive to play cookie cutter builds instead of exploring niche builds.

The complete opposite of this is true. To play a lot, if not most, cookie-cutter builds one has to acquire certain items, this is relatively trivial with trading and is far less likely to persuade someone to stray far from the tried and tested. With self-found, one can never make the assumption that they will ever acquire any given item and thus are far more likely to see what does and doesn't work with what they have.

"

Qarak wrote:

"

Novalisk wrote:

We are playing a game, remember?

That's what you guys keep forgetting when saying "trade is part of the game"

Trading can be fun due to its social aspect. I'm not denying that in its current form, trading isn't fun. I'm offering ways to solve that issue on all leagues instead of creating new leagues that don't have trading.

"

People who care about efficiency are not the same ones who want this league. The guys (at least like me), just want to have fun playing the game. Right now, this game is not fun for me, but it could be ten times better if something like this would be implemented.

Fun and efficiency are not mutually exclusive. You can care about efficiency and still have fun playing the game, and for a lot of players being comparatively efficient is fun.

Totally agree about the fun factor which is currently ona very low level. Droprate of useful items is so low that I am barely motivated to keep on grinding. Either GGG will do something about it or will lose many loyal customers in the long run. Just my few cents.

"

Kellog wrote:

"

Novalisk wrote:

Just how does GGG is creating new leagues equate to creating more leagues in addition to those? GGG's resources aren't unlimited, and to think that is being naive.

Chris mentioned in a post previously that they had in place a system, where making changes to accommodate new leagues and races, was relatively trivial. It's not like they're reinventing the wheel for every new league.

Unless you're a GGG employee, you know very little about that system and its limitations. And even if it was easy to implement a new league, there are still a lot of design considerations.

"

Kellog wrote:

"

Novalisk wrote:

Both with and without self-found, builds can be "finished". That's not a part of my argument. My point is that in self-found, the best builds don't become harder to obtain over time, so people will just get the best builds. In regular leagues, best builds become increasingly expensive, making other builds viable in the process.

Very few people who play true self-found will ever have the best of anything, build wise. Whereas those who trade can, if nothing else, have extremely good, even BiS, for some items.

Look at it this way: You have 1000 chance orbs on the self-found league. You can choose to get a powerful build or a less powerful build for the same amount of chance orbs.

You have 500 chance orbs on a league with trading. You can choose to get a powerful build for 500 chance orbs or a less powerful build for 100 chance orbs.

As far as efficiency is concerned, the choice is apparent with self-found, while with trading it isn't.

"

Kellog wrote:

"

Novalisk wrote:

MF makes your play-time significantly more efficient. The difference in efficiency between a person who doesn't have MF and a person who does is huge. Same goes for trading. The difference between being able to sell your items and not selling your items is also huge.

If MF becomes non-mandatory, and trading becomes a lot easier (with item flipping still being difficult), then there will be a lot less people who won't have to sell their exalted orbs to make progress, as they could sell their "trash" instead.

I'm sure those who like the trading game will rejoice if your ideas see the light or day, unfortunately, they have little to do with those of us who wish for SFL. Please try and understand, it really doesn't matter to SFL advocates, what GGG does with the trade system, unless they remove it entirely.

You're speaking for a lot of people. Not everyone who wants SFL would dislike trading if it was actually fun.

"

Kellog wrote:

"

Novalisk wrote:

Oh, not everyone will get the best build. But people who care about efficiency will have a lot more incentive to play cookie cutter builds instead of exploring niche builds.

The complete opposite of this is true. To play a lot, if not most, cookie-cutter builds one has to acquire certain items, this is relatively trivial with trading and is far less likely to persuade someone to stray far from the tried and tested. With self-found, one can never make the assumption that they will ever acquire any given item and thus are far more likely to see what does and doesn't work with what they have.

Cookie cutter builds tend to me more expensive than niche builds. This will not be the case with SFL.

"

You're speaking for a lot of people. Not everyone who wants SFL would dislike trading if it was actually fun.

Lol?
No seriously, what are you saying?

"

Qarak wrote:

"

You're speaking for a lot of people. Not everyone who wants SFL would dislike trading if it was actually fun.

Lol?
No seriously, what are you saying?

In other words, trading right now isn't very good. Give GGG a chance to fix it before you demand a league without it.

"

Novalisk wrote:

In other words, trading right now isn't very good. Give GGG a chance to fix it before you demand a league without it.

Ok you have no idea what we're talking about then, good job

"

Qarak wrote:

"

Novalisk wrote:

In other words, trading right now isn't very good. Give GGG a chance to fix it before you demand a league without it.

Ok you have no idea what we're talking about then, good job

Don't assume that just because people dislike trading as it is right now, they would also dislike it when it is fixed.

"

MrSmiley21 wrote:

Also people are going to have issues in Self-Found league that they wouldn't otherwise have in the other leagues.

For the sake of argument, suppose you got a good MF character in self found league, and you can farm up tons of rares. What happens when you run out of wisdom scrolls? Uh oh!! Can't just buy them in bulk from players anymore, and now you gotta farm up a pool of wisdom scrolls before you can even ID those rares, LOL!! Welcome to self found league. Don't like it? Go back to standard league (AKA Hello kitty adventure island)

I'm refraining from posting ITT, I think it has ran its course.

But I just couldn't stop myself from responding to this. It's so funny, I can't believe it was said.

MF character = more rares to ID than scrolls.

Non MF character = more wisdom scrolls, portal scrolls and transmutations than they could use in a million years.


Kicker, wait for it...

Some people have more than a single sporker on their account THAT THEY PLAY.

Do you honestly think all the people wanting SFL, or in any case - all the SFers, actually buy their wisdom scrolls, now?