Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Kellog wrote:

Probably easiest just to add the 12 year old harpy to the ignore list.

I'm over 30, and GGG values my opinions. I know that as fact.

I call a spade a spade, and I see through bullshit. I look at the consequences of suggestions, and how they relate to everything else, not just the desired balance issue.

I am not ignorant, I am arrogant. I am arrogant because yes, I do know better than most of you.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

2. A Self-Found league would be a very similar thing: not so much a step backward, but a step to the side, which would never end up proceeding forward.

Opinion only. Personally, I'd see SFL as a significant move in the right direction.

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3. Neither of these is "cataclysmic;" actually, they would both be rather livable. Hell, Fourist's vision of a self-found league might even be a good thing. Instead, the proper term for both is "slight downgrades."

Downgrade from what, the current regime, hardly.

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4. GGG's small staff has enough issues on its plate already, and shouldn't be working on changes that would make the game worse, even if only slightly. Actually, if they want to succeed, they actually have to dismiss things which would make the game slightly better. They don't have time for slightly better, only for drastically better.

I believe we've been here. However, SFL would be significantly harder than the current leagues and GGG already have resources assigned to new league development.

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There are opportunities for drastic improvement in trading vs crafting balance, but SFL is not one of them; it would just be a quick cover-up patch that leaves the core issues (in Standard and Anarchy leagues) unaddressed.

It has nothing to do with being a "quick cover-up" It has everything to do with offering an alternative play-style, free from the economic considerations that plague the current leagues, specifically trading.

All of you people screaming about how sfl is just a quick coverup, and not a proper fix, do not seem to understand something fundamental here.

The people in this thread asking for SFL dont want it only because trading vs crafting is not balanced.

They want it because they WANT A FUCKING LEAGUE WHERE THEY ONLY USE SELF FOUND STUFF AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE, BECAUSE THEY LIKE THAT IDEA AND PLAYSTYLE.

Its not just because the economy and crafting is screwed.

Jesus christ, stop ranting about how its not a proper fix.

There needs to be some fixes to the balance, and SFL is not that fix, but THAT DOES NOT FRIGGING MEAN SFL LEAGUE IS NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT.

How hard is that to understand... its been going on for pages and pages and you guys just do no seem to get it..

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MierenEronaile wrote:

All of you people screaming about how sfl is just a quick coverup, and not a proper fix, do not seem to understand something fundamental here.

The people in this thread asking for SFL dont want it only because trading vs crafting is not balanced.

They want it because they WANT A FUCKING LEAGUE WHERE THEY ONLY USE SELF FOUND STUFF AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE, BECAUSE THEY LIKE THAT IDEA AND PLAYSTYLE.

I am one of the people you're referring to and I can assure you I've come nowhere close to missing that fact. People wanting it and it being a good thing for the overall health of the game are two entirely separate concepts. If the overall reason for wanting SFL is so that you have the satisfaction of knowing everyone gets what they have through a method you approve of, then it's a horrible idea and should never even be considered. Elitist bullshit is never a good reason to make fundamental changes to a game.

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Its not just because the economy and crafting is screwed.

Jesus christ, stop ranting about how its not a proper fix.

No.

I will stop pushing for fixing the real issues once the real issues are fixed. I will not stop pointing out that hiding from them does nothing to address them. If you don't like what I have to say, you might consider looking up Ignarsoll's thread about the script he made for the forums. It may help you out.

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There needs to be some fixes to the balance, and SFL is not that fix, but THAT DOES NOT FRIGGING MEAN SFL LEAGUE IS NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT.

People want Kaom's and 6L Shav's and Taryn's too. That doesn't mean GGG should just drop them in everyone's lap because doing so would harm the game.

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How hard is that to understand... its been going on for pages and pages and you guys just do no seem to get it..

We're not having any difficulty understanding anything you've said in this post. The fact that you don't care for what we have to say has no bearing on whether or not we understand that y ou want what you want regardless of the consequences.

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Thaelyn wrote:

...We're not having any difficulty understanding anything you've said in this post. The fact that you don't care for what we have to say has no bearing on whether or not we understand that y ou want what you want regardless of the consequences.

Unfortunately, I haven't, as yet, seen what these so called 'consequences' are supposed to be. I've herd people suggest there will be a mass exodus to SFL, leaving the trading game less then viable, but I seriously don't believe that, at least not long term. As I've said before, a lot of those who like the idea of self-found will, unless they currently play this way, probably find the reality to hard and revert to a trading league.

Other than that, there will always be new leagues to 'fragment' the community, some short-term and some paid for. However, those of us that play self-found are already invisible to the community, so placing us in a dedicated league will, almost certainly, have less impact on trading and group play than any other new leagues.

As far as the game in general is concerned, it's without doubt that some aspects of the experience have issues. However, I can't see GGG fundamentally changing the game, in anyway that would place crafting on a level with trading and therein lies the problem.

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Thaelyn wrote:

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Hulkcore wrote:

No one is asking for increased item drops

I'll go back through tonight or tomorrow and double check, but I think you're very much mistaken here, Hulkcore. I believe far more people are asking for increased item drops than are not (given the two large SFL threads together, that is).

I'll admit that "no one" is probably a bit of am overstatement, but I've mostly seen people wanting orbs robe for crafting and not for buying. That can be done without increasing non-orb drops and without upsetting any difficulty balance the game has. Though, I haven't read all 80 pages here.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

I didn't say "increased item drop rates" Hulkcore, I said "increased drop rates", meaning orbs are included.
You are a fool, and I won't engage in "debate" with you.

Also, what Thaelyn said.

I never said that you did say that. You were lumping all drops together and I was separating them. But, it's clear that you're more interested in shitting on the chess board than you are playing the game. Have fun with that.

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MierenEronaile wrote:

They want it because they WANT A FUCKING LEAGUE WHERE THEY ONLY USE SELF FOUND STUFF AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE, BECAUSE THEY LIKE THAT IDEA AND PLAYSTYLE.

Then play that way in any existing league. Wake up and smell the coffee, the only one stopping you from playing that way already is yourself.

Self found already exists, just don't turn on trade chat.

You geniuses are seriously in need of a slap.

@Thaelyn

Hey, you know how diablo two can be played offline, and is the most successful arpg ever?

Yea, SFL would DEFINITELY ruin the game. No doubt about it.

Hint: Your consequences are bullshit.

@Herpy_Derpleson

I dont want to play the self found league, but OTHER people do. Unlike you people, I seem to be able to see the benefits in others getting what they want to.

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Thaelyn wrote:

I will stop pushing for fixing the real issues once the real issues are fixed. I will not stop pointing out that hiding from them does nothing to address them.

This just shows that you likely never had the same motivations for a SFL as say, the OP in the Suggestions thread, or me, in the first place.

There isn't any point in arguing with you (or the other "fixers") about what "needs to be fixed".

Fix the core game however you like, adjust the MF rates, map drops, group bonuses, convince GGG to zero everyones currency balance by binding orbs for crafting only (good luck), etc., even put in a fucking Auction House for all I care.

.....AND.....

the rest of us will STILL want a SFL.

Just answer this - do you even understand why anymore?