Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]
" There's no denying the game needs 'fixing' in a number of areas, however, I don't believe GGG will ever make changes to the standard leagues that would cater to self-found players. With this in mind, I feel it would be better if discussions regarding party mechanics, MF and trading could find more appropriate homes, such as Scrotie's very own MF thread. |
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" Well good for you. You wrote that like it happens every few days that you drop 5links and exalts. ------ I played for idk circa 800 hours in total, most on MF toon. I have since quit the game, because farming docks over and over again and doing low-level maps and still not be able to gear 1 character with decent gear just wasn't my thing. What I wanted from the game: Make lots of new different characters, gear them semi-decently, do some maps + when I farm that I feel I have a decent clear speed. What I got: Grind endlessly for pitifully itemized gear. Crafting that suck because of scarcity of orbs one can get by himself. Maps that have a currency wall. Characters that suck because I don't trade for their gear (if I make a cookiecutter build and it has 1/10th DPS, 1/2 life and 1/10th of defence....well, it's not the build it's the gear). I don't care about ladders or races. I wan't to play self-found, I wanted to do maps by myself (unsustainable). Hell, I can't even get equips that give me decent DPS with max resists, let alone with 5-6l and good other stats. For me personally the game would be much more enjoyable if I could decently gear characters and see their approximate potential...now I can only wonder what it would be like. Or when I get a drop that has potential to be good but only has idk 3 mods...I'd use exalts on it in a heartbeat...and guess what, I can't. Or when I finally get at least few mods that I want...and they're all level 1 fucking mods on a 70+ item. Anyway, gameplay became frustrating as hell. Felt like I'm hardly progressing at all after level 60 or a very very minimal progress. I can usually compensate any lack of gear up to merciless piety with skill...but when I get there it's just 1 shots with ice and shit even at max rez (low life yo - it's either rez or life with gear), not to mention tittybitches and all the trash in the way. When people write 30k armor is low hurr durr I'm just like WTF, that's low or what...I can't even break 10k coz of the gear. As for self-found league being easier than regular leagues...hah, good joke. In pretty much every MMO I played (and I played and play a lot) a group can be much more efficient. Trade gear, resources, crafting, grinding and whatnot...and that is just by trading within the group not taking in to account you can transfer those advantages to open market. What would bring me back: easier (yes yes, everyone has a different opinion on this...but I wouldn't want it to be too easy) gearing without trading. For example limiting the level of mods item can have to max-3 or something. Or crafting actually being generally useful...as is, it's so much better to use for trading...so much it borders on joke. Ah well, I doubt anything will happen with self-found so I'll just go back to buying random games I finish in 1-2 days coz I'm bored as hell. I apologise for semi-rambling style, there's more I could say on the whole topic without sounding strange on QQing but cba to bother. |
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In a Self Found league dropping one Exalt wouldn't even be a post-worthy event - you can't buy anything with it and it has no 'value'. You'd need stacks of them just like you would any other orb for them to have any 'worth' to the individual 'using' them.
Which is the whole point of a self found league - to use crafting items like they're crafting items. I see Reaper has finally tried to nail why some people are suggesting self-found would be 'easier'. He didn't mean it would be 'easier' he meant it would be 'easier than playing self found under the current league structures'. Which is the whole point of a self found league - to give self-found players the opportunity to experience the same game rewards as all other players. Currently, any self-found player, by choosing themselves to be self-found in a trading league, is giving themselves a much more 'rewardless' experience than any other trading player. By insinuating a self-found league would 'just' make things 'easier' is a way to express repression in a negative context to those that want 'equality'. In reality, what GGG should have done from the outset was to have the Hardcore League be a self-found league with no death penalty. Because self-found is actually the 'true' hardcore way to play a game based on isolated survival. Reaper is admitting this even by disparaging the concept. The Hardcore Death Penalty League should have been a short-term league as it is not much different to the basic game and only offers one mechanic change. The economy argument is moot as any permanent league with an economy will eventually have inflation whatever you do, in hardcore it is just slower to get to XYZ destination - but it will still get there. . |
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" That would be the worst thing one could possibly do. While I don't agree with everything Scrotie says, all the time, his points are always made with an unbelievable amount of research and thinking that is honestly, on another level. Scrotie makes a very valid point in that SFL wouldn't fix the issues. SFL would fix some issues, sure, but it might not be the best solution. Might not, but we are still debating this, Scrotie's input here is absolutely valuable. Take me, I was an avid supporter of SFL, what got me was crafting, more orbs to craft with sounded great. Then I got to high end game, self found through nothing more than a ridiculous time investment. It's possible, just stupidly time consuming. That wasn't even the problem, I like that. The problem in no trade doesn't start until end game. It isn't in gear acquisition, it isn't in crafting, those are dwarfed by the real issue; content access. A SFL could triple orb drops and gear drops, some people would feel the benefit, a portion of self found players would find the difference between non-viable and viable. Some, like myself would just advance through the game a little quicker, meh. Some, would still not get self-found to work. This all lies in time investment. So, let's say we have managed to make self found more viable for more people, success, right? No!! We now have more than the no-lifer self found people at end game, we now have the few hours, few days a week, at end game, and you know what? Nothing changed at end game. To make self found solo* mapping viable, without changing the orb system or the map system, we need to up orb drops by a factor of around 50-100 AND STILL MF THE FUCK OUT OF CONTENT, probably, mostly low content, too. The problems lie mostly in the orb system, the MF system, the currency sink methodology, group v solo and the map/content access system. Small tweaks to the areas Qarl accepted would help, too. *probably even group, too, but to a lesser extent. Casually casual. Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Aug 29, 2013, 7:02:55 AM
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" Well I don't know. I play Onslaught, but sustaining map pool of low lvl maps is not that big problem - there are many mods available which offer enough map drop rate. It maybe different with high level maps. Still I think this is a different problem - since at the end game the game is not challenging, because you can't handle it, but because you can't get to challenging content. This problem will be here all the time. And needs to be solved in current leagues too. MY CHALLENGES ARE DONE ON HC, IT'S NOT SC GUYS!
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i can see standard league and hardcore league dropping a third of their population
mainly due to players playing standard and hardcore and self found ALL AT ONCE The rest of the 'end-game' content will be available along with a heap of new stuff when the game launches in a few months time. From what I've seen it's going to be awesome. - Michael_GGG
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" agree just slightly increase drop rates on standard league everyone happy people who want self found can just self found on standard league. The rest of the 'end-game' content will be available along with a heap of new stuff when the game launches in a few months time. From what I've seen it's going to be awesome. - Michael_GGG
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" GGG cannot remove the incentives from group play that are already in the game, the vast majority of players would quit. So, I believe a new league with different rules would be the best option - and how is that "radical"? One of the main selling points of PoE is the league system, where players can get new experiences with the same game. If you want to play PoE in groups, you have a lot of leagues to choose from and if you don't you can play in the solo league where you can't trade or join teams. Pretty easy. *also* All of the talk about splitting the player base is moot - GGG is doing that already, and will continue to do that as more leagues are put in place and more races are introduced. Also, since the people who WANT to play self found wouldn't want to trade or group, their presence in leagues where you CAN trade and group, is meaningless, because they do not participate anyways. "the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers." -GGG Happy hunting/fishing Last edited by Wittgenstein#0994 on Aug 29, 2013, 8:06:45 AM
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I don't really see how the current leagues could be "fixed", although I have full confidence in Scrotie to come up with a strange complicated way of doing it.
If there is trading in a game like this then the game has to be balanced for trading, self found always suffers as a result. In my experience. Standard Forever
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The first 5 posts are updated until this point again.
I will monitor the thread in between and will now add information about updates in the first post. I added 2 suggestions to the other suggestions section. One including the Quest-Reward route people suggested, two the suggestion of ScrotieMB's to make content more accessible by modifying many different places of the game. Furthermore I completed Packet#5 of the selected posts. It was harder to fill it this time, as many points keep getting repeated. Let's try to keep it original and make more suggestions other than an own SFL. First hand self-found experience feedback is still appreciated. Thank you everyone for participating in such a great way. Honestly, I expected that Support would need to intercept way more. You guys make me believe that we can actually really help GGG instead of only babbling around and shit on each other. :) If anyone wants to appoint something in my first 5 posts, content or structure wise, feel free to send me a PM! Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Aug 29, 2013, 9:22:49 AM
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