Consolidated Feedback After A Year Of Playing
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Your point regardning CI and Life is a common mistake most people make.
There will never be perfect balance in your eyes because people will always prefer one over the other, no matter what you do. If the current situation was as dire as you want to make it look no one would play life based builds, thats not the case though. There are quite a few life builds among the flood of people who play CI. It doesnt matter what you patch, one of them will always be superior, even if its just by 5% and those 5% will be the reason the majority catters to it. Last edited by nynyny#3398 on Aug 24, 2013, 11:22:10 AM
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" I'm pretty sure I didn't say that CI&Life should be perfectly balanced...What I did intimate is that Life was not helped by patch 0.10.0 (which is what we were told it would do) and that arguably Life vs. CI is in just the same place it was a year ago just relatively lower figures than before. The intention of 0.10.0 was to reduce the 'Path of Life Nodes' meta, it did nothing of the sort, my point was that the player has to stack just as many health nodes as before (whether they be HP or ES) but they just end up with less overall health. CI is more attractive as it is easier to gather base ES than it is to gather HP. They will never be equal, you can't even go CI until mid/late game so to consider them both equal is a mistake. |
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" And everybody should have realized this is something that is impossible to achieve. In a game where spike damage kills you most of the time people will always stack life/es, no matter what you do because going full out glasscanon simply is retarded in a game with that many network and desynch issues. The fact that you feel the need to mention that CI has easier access to stack up health shows that you dont understand the concept of either one. Life grants you - Health - HPS - usually a shitton of Armour by default - a way to pay for your spells - gets rid of mana regen as a mandatory stat because you cast with life All ES gives you is buffer, thats about it. It doesnt get rid of any other problem you might encounter and if you want HPS you have to specc into areas you usually would never go into (except for the one Templar node). So the reason why people not only have to specc so much into life but also want to is because it gets rid of nearly all problems they could possibly encounter except for the lack of damage. |
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" That is a result of bad code & poor balancing. " Actually I was trying to highlight that a CI chara can usually get away with just a well rolled chest piece & their passive tree to achieve adequate amounts of ES to 'survive'. A health user will have to have a decent roll of health on EVERY piece of their ger to achieve similar EHP. You are quick to say I have no understanding of concepts but it seems you have failed to understand my point entirely. " That statement would suggest that you feel almost every health user also goes BM. They don't. Many health users also have to deal with mana issues, have hardly any armour from their gear & tree & with the same investment end up with less survivablity than their ES counterparts. It seems to me that it is you that has a very limited or jaded view of ES vs HP and tend to either make a BM or a CI chara, there are many different types of builds inbetween. |
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very nice post lethal!
“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens My QoL List: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3279646 |
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The only way to play a HP based character that doesnt get fucked over by mana is to either use BM support gem or run Soul Taker. No debate. Theres no point in trying to run a mana based build when Life directly provides you an alternative. You refusing to use it is not the games fault.
Anything else (a handful exceptions exist but those dont deal with a mana problem) is completely inefficient due to the nodes positioning. Keep lying to yourself, saying that many life based characters deal with the mana issue. Sure there are characters that use mana for something else than auras, but thats the reason attacks like Cleave costs 10 and not 25 mana on level 20. Last edited by nynyny#3398 on Aug 24, 2013, 12:22:43 PM
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" Why are you defending this? |
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" Why wouldnt I? You have the choice between picking low mana skills and be able to use mana to pay for them or use Life, the resource your build is based around, to pay for expensive skills like for example Lightning Strike. Providing life based characters the opportunity to use mana instead of life would be completely unbalanced unless you make them invest heavily into nodes they usually wouldnt even be close to (which is the case right now). Look at casters for example. There currently is only one skill that is worth self casting and requires spam (something melees usually do) and that is Freezing Pulse. You need to run mana leech and life leech to make the build work, ergo got 3 offensive support gems. Why would you allow life based builds to run 4? Because they are in close range to the mobs? Something that isnt even true in most cases? Youre basically asking for life to have no limitations apart from their overall health pool being smaller than CIs and them being more prone to reflect, something that can easily be avoided by not turning off your brain while clearing but actually look at the mods the pack youre attacking has. Life based builds use BM support Hybrid based builds choose between mana or BM support ES based builds use mana leech (ignoring totem builds) If you want to play anything else you have to make sacrifices, and thats the right way especially since the game (for some reason) already gives you the choice to run life based skills like Cleave with mana, even though you not having invested much into the resource. Last edited by nynyny#3398 on Aug 24, 2013, 12:47:52 PM
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I believe your judgement has been clouded by the fact that GGG have made mana too much of a finite resource by nerfing mana into the ground (it wasn't always like this) & relying too heavily on blood magic as a result. The cookie cutter builds of the tree are a result of the layout of the tree & not as a direct result of GGG's intentions. There are no GGG builds, there are no intended builds, they do not balance around premades.
What we have is a jumbled mess & a 'suck it an see' attitude where over time certain patterns have risen to the top, barely any of it seems intentional, Marauder casters, Ranger melee & Bow using Witches all prove that the whole thing is just a clusterfuk with no real direction. What I am trying to get at is that when all has been said and done there are now just a few objectively better cookie cutter paths & builds, the lack of balancing patched means that these builds have become the premades of the game, hardly any of them seem intentional or fitting with the classes of the game. I would not defend the cul-de-sacs that the tree/gear have created, often they rely on weaknesses in the game or ways to circumvent certain mechanics. With little in terms of balancing patches in a year little has changed but GGG still seem unaware of the ruts the game has found itself in. With a few changes many areas of the game that now feel redundant could become a thing but if they are always ignored in favor of making new content then I feel like they are just building on bad foundations. |
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There's no need to troll Lethal's feedback thread with a rant about life vs. es. He said almost none of the things you're arguing about and there's no reason to be insulting.
His point that builds still depend heavily on stacking life/es nodes is valid. The life/es rebalance didn't change builds at all. As for the ease of obtaining base es vs. life, outside of Kaom's, I don't see any chests with more than 120 hp, but there are lots of 500-1000+ es 5L/6L chests around. The game clearly still needs (and will always need) more balancing, and ES/life is just a tiny piece of Lethal's feedback. |
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