Don't Remove MF from the Game; Just Cut it in Half

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technie_noob wrote:

Nothing needs to be fixed.

If you really think about it, nothing needs to happen, ever. We could all just... stop. We'd eventually die from our nonactivity, and if you consider that to be a "happening" then I guess that's the only need: death. The only thing we need to do is die.

IIQ and IIR should be fixed.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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technie_noob wrote:

Nothing needs to be fixed.

If you really think about it, nothing needs to happen, ever. We could all just... stop. We'd eventually die from our nonactivity, and if you consider that to be a "happening" then I guess that's the only need: death. The only thing we need to do is die.

IIQ and IIR should be fixed.

3 months of MF mapping i've seen two kaoms dropped. They should make new new contents instead, MF is fine as is.

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technie_noob wrote:

3 months of MF mapping i've seen two kaoms dropped. They should make new new contents instead, MF is fine as is.

Perhaps you misunderstand me. This is not a thread about nerfing MF; the intent is to keep MF finding the same amount of items before as after on an absolute basis. A high MF character with a 0.67 Kaoms/month rate should have between a 0.63 and 0.70 Kaoms/month ratio after; maybe a little worse off but I really don't want to hurt these character's drops, just the relative difference between them and your typical solo melee guy. The thing we're really trying to change here is the rate for the guy without IIQ or IIR. I want to leave your character alone in terms of function; the only difference you should see is a harmless tweak to your character stat sheet.

You can make a MF guy if you want. Party play needs several classes. Others classes like DPS or tank are also useful.

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technie_noob wrote:

You can make a MF guy if you want. Party play needs several classes. Others classes like DPS or tank are also useful.

Problem isn't mf alone. The problem is that huge gap between little mf and basic mf character with 100/300+ - especially in maps

Major revision to OP, due to PolarisOrbit's insightful critique. Now less of a global IIQ/IIR increase at level zero, scaling up as the character gains levels, better allowing the post-change environment to match the pre-change one for max-MF characters.

Which I guess means "Paragon levels." If that's you're thing.

Looking at your graphics, the disparity between full mf and zero is still too big for my liking. Playing with one of the fun characters may feel too unrewarding again. Maybe there should be some kind of soft-cap, like d2 had.

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xanap wrote:

Looking at your graphics, the disparity between full mf and zero is still too big for my liking. Playing with one of the fun characters may feel too unrewarding again. Maybe there should be some kind of soft-cap, like d2 had.

The funny thing is, I researched Diablo 2's numbers prior to making this suggestion; they influenced why I believed that halving was the appropriate amount.

The absolute maximum amount of Magic Find you could have in Diablo 2 was 1167% (source). According to Diablo 2's diminishing returns formula, this resulted in roughly 396% more rares, or 4.96 max-MF rares per zero-MF rare (source). My goal here is not to nerf MF into the ground, but to reduce it to relatively sane Diablo 2 levels... which is why I was shooting for approximately a 5-to-1 comparative rare-drop advantage between max MF and zero MF for my PoE suggestion. It ended up being about 5.55, which I'll admit is a little high, but not far enough off for me to suggest a different kind of MF nerf; telling players we're going to reduce everything 53% would have a far worse psychological impact than 50%.

You had to do some insane things to get that type of MF in D2... and PoE is no different. The gear required to get 163/147 417 currently would be so insanely difficult to acquire that I don't believe anyone has even come close; if they did, the gear likely wouldn't have much else to offer affix-wise and you'd end up with a pretty weak and fragile character. In reality, the best D2 farmers didn't have the maximum; PoE would be no different.

edit: Fixed typo.

Nice research :D

You are right there, in d2 i usually stopped at the half, in favor to killspeed. Of course you kind of cut your own leg, but thats less true here when grouping thanks to Culling Strike, as you pointed out.

I wont care about the party benefit if i could sustain my mappool without that havy orbfarming with a dedicated mfer. It feels like going to work, to have a little fun with my melee, i have to farm serveral hours first... but thats another issue.

Still rooting for this one, it will help already.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

#2 is equivalent to saying the Covenant fix was a bad idea. Lots of QQ on that one (even by me, although you'd never catch me saying it shouldn't have happened).

Covenant fix is a very bad example, since it visibly and tangibly nerfed every non-CI build in the game. What I meant by "Stealth nerf", is a buff to something that in turn is an indirect nerf to something else. In this case, buffing MF for maps and making it stack with gear instead of multiply it does not nerf MF directly, so there's very little to complain about.

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People will QQ about anything and everything, it's no reason to stop progress.

Well I can't disagree with that, but if I were GGG, I'd rather avoid pissing people off if I could. With my suggestion they can.

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#3 is just moot. Those global increases wouldn't be shown on your character sheet; they would become the new 0/0. Perhaps you never fully understood what I was getting at in the first place.

Well that section got changed multiple times so I guess I didn't fully understand it. I'm guessing you went with that "More" part so the nerfed MF people wouldn't notice the difference? If so then it's kinda silly, since the first thing they'll care about is how their most visible stats got lowered.

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Your addative suggestion only deals with MF in maps, and would only serve to further promote Docks farming and discourage map-running.

Buffing MF in maps for non-MF builds makes a very significant change to the docks metagame. Suddenly instead of getting MF gear and farming docks over and over, you have an incentive to get power gear and do maps instead. Once your power reaches optimal levels, you should then go for MF gear. Currently it's the other way around, as players are encouraged to get MF gear before power gear.

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It's important that MF builds are not further penalized for choosing more challenging content.

MF builds won't be that significantly penalized for choosing more challenging content. If you can take on the hardest content while also getting high MF, you'll still be much more time efficient than the equivalent non-MF guy.

Halving MF values on gear achieves the same result essentially, except it does it everywhere else where it is simply not needed.