Don't Remove MF from the Game; Just Cut it in Half
" I look at it this way: You reached docks? Right now, it's best to just farm it, get MF gear, and farm it some more. If my above suggestion is implemented, it'll be best to farm it, get better gear, and do maps. However, you could farm docks with seemingly no difference. The end-game result is the same, however there are key differences that make the MF map changes favorable to halving MF values on gear + base MF increases: 1. It's a lot easier to change maps, than to change every gear in the game with MF. 2. Stealth Nerfs > Direct Nerfs as far as community outcry is concerned. I can guarantee there will be a 40 page thread of complaints if MF values on gear get halved. If MF on maps becomes additive with gear and gets buffed, then there'd be little if any complaints. 3. A base floor of +40% and +65% seems artificial and non-intuitive. A base floor should be 0%. I had a lot of time to think about halving MF values on gear (IIRC I was the first to present the idea to you), and I honestly believe making map MF additive and buffing it is a far more elegant solution. Last edited by Novalisk#3583 on Aug 21, 2013, 2:53:50 PM
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@Novalisk: #1 is your only valid point. Any kind of mass retroactive change like this would require hours of server downtime while GGG implements changes. That's a stiff cost, but I believe it's worth it; unfortunately, this last patch with its massive download size would have been an ideal time to implement such a change. If I was GGG I definitely would hold off on a change like this until a very major patch; for example, test it in Alpha then wait until full release for deployment.
#2 is equivalent to saying the Covenant fix was a bad idea. Lots of QQ on that one (even by me, although you'd never catch me saying it shouldn't have happened). People will QQ about anything and everything, it's no reason to stop progress. #3 is just moot. Those global increases wouldn't be shown on your character sheet; they would become the new 0/0. Perhaps you never fully understood what I was getting at in the first place. Your addative suggestion only deals with MF in maps, and would only serve to further promote Docks farming and discourage map-running; it's a horrible suggestion. It's important that MF builds are not further penalized for choosing more challenging content. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Aug 21, 2013, 5:10:41 PM
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Make it so, Number One.
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" Is this not the pot calling the kettle black? What is the objective of the "halve MF, increase base" if not to make MF less build dependent? Less difference between sporker and melee, solo and party, etc. Second, you are unfairly biasing because "it was in D3." Consider the cadence of loot drops as you level up. At level 7, blue items are still good; at level 70 it takes a well-rolled rare to be useful. A solution which floods level 7 players with the rate of rares that is reasonable for a level 70 ignores that the cadence of loot is not the same across all levels. In fact, character level itself is a driving factor in loot cadence. Why not be direct about that relationship, as was done with life, mana, etc? MF is the currently existant tool that gives low levels a selection of blues to gear with and high levels a selection of yellows to gears. Unless you are suggesting some other mechanism to account for this difference, than increased MF by level is a beneficial feature ipso facto. The different cadence between low levels and high levels is significant enough to warrant more than just 200% change. Spreading the benefit across the account is a similar concept to twinking. The first time you play the game it's fun to challenge yourself through the whole thing as you are learning what works and what doesn't. The twentieth time you play the game you just want to get back to the high levels again and pick up where you left off. Twink gear accommodates the change in the players goal in the same way account-wide base MF does. Last edited by PolarisOrbit#5098 on Aug 21, 2013, 7:11:32 PM
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Been saying this for months, didn't bother to create thread though :P Well done
In addition, transform some of the party bonus noncurrency iiq to iir in order to lessen item clusterfuck Last edited by Jyssi#3843 on Aug 21, 2013, 8:48:06 PM
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" You aren't the only one who thinks having that playing MF characters isn't very fun. That's why we want a buff to base rates so that it's viable to play whatever character you enjoy the most and still get loot!
Spoiler
I know the point of your post implied the current state of the game is balanced because of the MF build drawbacks. Instead you made a pretty strong case (inadvertently) for why Scrotie's suggestion would improve the game.
P̯̹̙̥̉̏ͦͯA̠̝̰̣̯͕͚̲̭͈̥̠͑̓̿ͦ̾ͯ̍ͅͅȚ̜̦͕̞̞̠̮͎͔͙͔̺̺͉̟̿̿̏ͬ͛͋̍ͮ̌̚H̹͕͚̟͍̘̤̱̻̬͓̬̮̫̦͖̳̹ͮͨ̒̉ͮ̿̈ͪ̇̿͆ͭ̃ͭ̃ͭ̚ ̲̫̞̤͓̳͑ͬ̾͌ͯ͐͂̿͗ͨ͋͑̍͐͗̾̄O͕̮̻͔̳̠͉͖̳͖͈̻͇͈̣̙̪͈ͨ͐̒̽ͣ̋ͅF̣͎̞̞̯̝ͦ͌̆ͥ̈͐̾ͣ̔ͮ̐̀̏ͪ̚ ̟̩͙̙̩̮̻̼ͬ͑ͥͦ͗̿E̼̭̩̜͕̱̤̭̞͖̳͍̝̤̼͓̗ͩͫ̌ͬ̊̋̄͑͗̽X͕̰̪̱̲̩̙̦͓͓̯̠̤̝̝̯̣̥̀̋̌̍̚Ȉ̖̟͔̩̝̊̿ͪͅL̺͓̻̰̀͋̅ͮͧE͔̼͚͕̮̻̟̩̪̖̫̪̦͙̎̑͆̏ͨͅ
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" You aren't the only one who thinks having that playing MF characters isn't very fun. That's why we want a buff to base rates so that it's viable to play whatever character you enjoy the most and still get loot!
Spoiler
I know the point of your post implied the current state of the game is balanced because of the MF build drawbacks. Instead you made a pretty strong case (inadvertently) for why Scrotie's suggestion would improve the game.
P̯̹̙̥̉̏ͦͯA̠̝̰̣̯͕͚̲̭͈̥̠͑̓̿ͦ̾ͯ̍ͅͅȚ̜̦͕̞̞̠̮͎͔͙͔̺̺͉̟̿̿̏ͬ͛͋̍ͮ̌̚H̹͕͚̟͍̘̤̱̻̬͓̬̮̫̦͖̳̹ͮͨ̒̉ͮ̿̈ͪ̇̿͆ͭ̃ͭ̃ͭ̚ ̲̫̞̤͓̳͑ͬ̾͌ͯ͐͂̿͗ͨ͋͑̍͐͗̾̄O͕̮̻͔̳̠͉͖̳͖͈̻͇͈̣̙̪͈ͨ͐̒̽ͣ̋ͅF̣͎̞̞̯̝ͦ͌̆ͥ̈͐̾ͣ̔ͮ̐̀̏ͪ̚ ̟̩͙̙̩̮̻̼ͬ͑ͥͦ͗̿E̼̭̩̜͕̱̤̭̞͖̳͍̝̤̼͓̗ͩͫ̌ͬ̊̋̄͑͗̽X͕̰̪̱̲̩̙̦͓͓̯̠̤̝̝̯̣̥̀̋̌̍̚Ȉ̖̟͔̩̝̊̿ͪͅL̺͓̻̰̀͋̅ͮͧE͔̼͚͕̮̻̟̩̪̖̫̪̦͙̎̑͆̏ͨͅ
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You could halve the values and make the increase to base MF hidden, so it still shows as 0% base.
Patch Note / Announcement: The value of all Increased Rarity and Increased Quantity affixes has been halved. An increase to players base chance to find currency and rare items will make up for this. This is a buff to solo players, while leaving MF characters the same. Last edited by Xendran#1127 on Aug 21, 2013, 10:10:57 PM
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"To be slightly more precise, it's the pot calling the kettle blacker. But you bring up an interesting point about "loot cadence" in regards to level. I mean, assuming all characters are level 80 and have access to the best IIQ and IIR numbers (and temporarily ignoring any implications of the yet-unknown diminishing returns formula), the global loot increase makes sense mathematically. However, all characters being level 80 is a fallacious assumption; they are not. The global increase is far too large relative to level 30 players; at that stage both IIQ/IIR stackers and solo players would be getting far more loot, when the intent is to keep MF stacking at the same level. Thus, instead of a flat 40/65 more bonus to everyone, it would make more sense to base this bonus off of the player's current level; for example, let's say 0.5% more IIQ per character level and 1% more IIR, which would be 35/70 at level 70 and 40/80 at level 80. This would be a completely hidden more bonus, and IIQ/IIR on items would still be halved. The result for endgame would be virtually identical to my original suggestion, but it wouldn't overwhelm the early game loot cadence with extraneous, undeserved rares. And I guess the frustrated level 90s out there would come out ahead. They probably deserve it. I'll update the OP later; I'm on my cell now. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Aug 21, 2013, 11:40:57 PM
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Nothing needs to be fixed.
ign TheBlackMambaTemplar
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