Don't Remove MF from the Game; Just Cut it in Half
" You keep saying that but you never show any proof. I would like to see 50x 50/150 runs and 50x 100/300 Rare count Uniq count Time spent Solo of course. Come back when you actually have some statistics to show then I might take your suggestion more seriously. Also what's the big deal in needing an Mfer for high lvl content??? You need DPS You want a tank/Curser so of course to have a really optimal group it should include an mfer in 1 of the 6 spots. Or else it would just be 5 dps 1 curser in all parties. A full Mfer gives nothing more than culling to a group the dps is minimal and the utility is really not there (except for shockwave totem mfers) Your suggestion would remove the need for an mfer because everyone and there mother could get enough on gear with those base values to get more loot by farming faster. "I'm afraid if I stop drinking the cumulative hangover will kill me" ~ Sterling Archer
IGN: Angryweasel / PopTheWeasel |
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On a related note, I'm quite unhappy that high DPS builds clear content much faster than my MF character, so it would be best if DPS was cut in half. But not all DPS of course, only the DPS that's higher than the DPS I can comfortably reach. Oh and the DPS below mine? Let's just give it a flat boost by halving mob health. Sounds reasonable to me!
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@exit_zero (aka troll)
Halving monster health would have a huge effect on group play. My suggestion would have almost no effect on group play. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" This is just a hunch but it seems that base MF values are somewhat balanced around what can be achieved when stacking MF gear. Base rates suck, the only way to increase them and keep some semblance of balance is to hit high MF gear with a reduction. As Scrotie said, this suggestion doesn't even have an impact on high MF characters. Overpowered things need to be nerfed because they have a negative impact on the balance of all things that relate to it. Similarly Kaom's probably has too much life to balance life properly for people without one. The existence of Shavronne's is why low life is overpowered, but luckily we haven't seen any nerfs for RF yet despite how easy it becomes to use once you don't have to fear chaos damage. P̯̹̙̥̉̏ͦͯA̠̝̰̣̯͕͚̲̭͈̥̠͑̓̿ͦ̾ͯ̍ͅͅȚ̜̦͕̞̞̠̮͎͔͙͔̺̺͉̟̿̿̏ͬ͛͋̍ͮ̌̚H̹͕͚̟͍̘̤̱̻̬͓̬̮̫̦͖̳̹ͮͨ̒̉ͮ̿̈ͪ̇̿͆ͭ̃ͭ̃ͭ̚ ̲̫̞̤͓̳͑ͬ̾͌ͯ͐͂̿͗ͨ͋͑̍͐͗̾̄O͕̮̻͔̳̠͉͖̳͖͈̻͇͈̣̙̪͈ͨ͐̒̽ͣ̋ͅF̣͎̞̞̯̝ͦ͌̆ͥ̈͐̾ͣ̔ͮ̐̀̏ͪ̚ ̟̩͙̙̩̮̻̼ͬ͑ͥͦ͗̿E̼̭̩̜͕̱̤̭̞͖̳͍̝̤̼͓̗ͩͫ̌ͬ̊̋̄͑͗̽X͕̰̪̱̲̩̙̦͓͓̯̠̤̝̝̯̣̥̀̋̌̍̚Ȉ̖̟͔̩̝̊̿ͪͅL̺͓̻̰̀͋̅ͮͧE͔̼͚͕̮̻̟̩̪̖̫̪̦͙̎̑͆̏ͨͅ
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" And for the guy running 125IQ/600IR you're fucking him over completely... the fact he spent that much currency to get those numbers... and you wanna punish him... Kory
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"1) Does this guy even exist? Is this possible? I mean, I believe 125 IIQ, but who on earth has 600 IIR?!? 2) Even given my original, this guy gets dropped to 63 IIQ with 35% more global, which would feel like 120 IIQ does now. And he'd get dropped to 300 IIR with 60% more global, which would feel like 540 IIQ does now. Is that a slight nerf? Absolutely. Is that "fucking him over completely?" I don't think so. Still, if 600+ IIR is a real thing, I might consider editing my proposal to 75% more global rarity; with that amount, 300 IIR would feel exactly like 600 IIR does now. So here's the deal: you give me a character sheet IIQ/IIR image to replace the one I have now, and I'll retweak the numbers around that guy instead of the one I found originally. Edit: Nevermind, I'll do it myself. But I'm only using rares; I don't want to balance around uniques, and if that means some uniques get an ever-so-slight nerf, so be it. Here's to BiS rares. Max IIQ = 120% (20% each on helms, gloves, boots, amulets, two rings) + 43% (support gem) = 163% Max IIR = 300% (50% each from affixes on helms, gloves, boots, amulets, two rings) + 50% (intrinsic Gold mods on rings and amulet) + 67% (support gem) = 417% So let's change that to... New IIQ (with 40% more global quantity) = 60% (10% each on from affixes on helms, gloves, boots, amulets, two rings) + 22% (support gem) = 82%, 1.82*1.4=2.55, feels like 155% IIQ feels now, feels like a -8% IIQ hit New IIR (with 65% more global rarity) = 150% (25% each from affixes on helms, gloves, boots, amulets, two rings) + 26% (intrinsic Gold mods) + 33% (support gem) = 209%, 3.09*1.65=5.10, feels like 410% IIR feels now, feels like a -7% IIR hit So I'm going to edit my OP and bump both increases up by a whopping 5% each. Thank you for your input. Keep in mind that these represent perfection, and perfection in rares exists only rarely; even exceptionally well-geared players would fall a few points short of these marks and thus suffer less than even these single-digit hits. For example, the 100/300 example would now receive a (very small) buff to drops as a response to this suggestion. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Aug 19, 2013, 3:23:30 AM
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What about the fact that having iir/iiq directly multiply the value of your maps?
" By the way, it's "8,77 times as much or 7,77 times more rare and...", just slightly less doomy. This means, that a player/group with this kind of mf is playing 8,77 maps, while someone who doesn't have mf is playing 1 map. If you rolled a map using, say 1 alch then 2 chaos, we're talking about magically generating 15,54 chaos and 7,77 alch out of nothing. This means, that even before finding anything in the map, you're already way ahead. And another thing, this doesn't end in maps. In regular areas having mf means you are effectively running a map many times more than a guy who doesn't have, without actually doing anything but stacking 2 stats on your gears. iir/iiq are just bullshit stats which should have absolutely no place in a game specifically about loot. Think of it this way: Are the drop rates good enough normally? If they are, why the hell would you need iir/iiq then? If not, then you are just forcing people to fix a problem which should not have been a problem in the first place. You could argue that iir/iiq are just stats like hp and fire res, but the problem is, if iir/iiq are mandatory for good enough drop rates, you need iir/iiq before you need hp/fire res, but you need iir/iiq to get iir/iiq. iir/iiq just do not fit a balanced game at all. |
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"Nice catch. "The thing is, "good enough drop rates" isn't a hard line. It's a fuzzy line that means different things to different people. The motivation behind this suggestion is that 90% of rational players would agree that zero IIQ/IIR is emphatically on the bad side of that line; that doesn't mean that players shouldn't have a choice on when they have "good enough drop rates." For that matter, "good enough survivability" and "good enough DPS" are also fuzzy. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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My reason for +1 on this was that I hope that by nerfing rarity (particularly in regards to unique) that trading would become more viable again when you did drop that item. To me Onslaught became stale very fast as people abused particularly Wondertraps/multiboxing (Searing touches became a joke) to farm. GGG are always persisting about the difficulty to obtain endgame gear, but now its almost worth nothing unless it is perfect, such is the overflow of items in a league created to give us a "fresh" economy. I can only imagine with a bigger player base this will get worse.
High end farm gear would still be viable with this guys suggestions, it just wouldn't be so incredibly OP. I love MF, anyone who knows me knows that I have always run MF on any character I have done, because I don't find it viable to sustain playing like this. So really what I want is: The ability to sustain solo with less MF Less uniques and rare items at the high end of MFing and balances in line with this. Probably won't happen =D And as for having a dedicated MF'er in each group, if you play with real life friends and don't have the biggest group, there are other priorities and you shouldn't be forced to having an MF'er when you don't even need a tank at the moment. On another note: If we are going to drop so many pointless, unsellable uniques, please let us vendor a set of uniques (8-9 items roughly alc each if you eventually sell them) for like 8 chances or something? Can trade that for 2 scours/regret/alc. Seems fair to me. EDIT: I'd also like to add that the next league is the perfect chance to test out a new MF formula. Feedback from that will indicate if it is better or worse than the current system Return to this flameless sunder Where exiles burn and the joyless wander; Frozen lore beneath chaotic thunder, Dominus returns to send us under. Last edited by ckay27#1488 on Aug 19, 2013, 8:12:29 AM
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You guys do realize that all the math in this thread is useless, right? It doesn't account for diminishing returns, and they are an unknown variable anyways.
Patch 9.9 -Diminishing returns now applies to the rate that Increased Item Rarity affects magic, rare and unique items (it affects the less common ones more). -Increased Item Quantity stats now also have diminishing returns. This allows us to have higher initial values and lets us balance the extreme cases so that their rate of item gain is high but not abusive. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt
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