Don't Remove MF from the Game; Just Cut it in Half

MAJOR REVISION 22AUG

My suggestion (reasons are the important part, and discussed below):

• Globally buff quantity dropped and rarity of items dropped by "20% more" each. This would be a general change to the game and would not be recorded on any stat sheets. Optionally, GGG could use "10% more" or "15% more" instead to keep overall drop rates from increasing too much (but I'd still recommend 20%).
• Cut everything IIQ and IIR in half. Rare affixes, Item Quantity and Item Rarity support gems, intrinsic mods on Gold Rings and Amulets. Rounded up. Everything. And retroactively. Server downtime is acceptable. (Gifts from Above is the only item in the game that should be spared.)
• Implement a level-based "more" bonus to Item Quantity equal to 1% per 4 full area levels (max 19% more in level 76+ maps).
• Implement a level-based "more" bonus to Item Rarity equal to 1% per 2 full area levels (max 38% more in level 76+ maps).

Why make these changes?
Simply put, the game's economy and gear-checks are balanced assuming some degree of IIQ and IIR. Some people think it's balanced around trading; this is false, trading doesn't give you the type of overwhelming advantage we're talking about. On the other hand, something like this:

...that is the kind of overwhelming advantage we're talking about. This means (1+1.03)*(1+3.32)=2.03*4.32=8.77 times as many rare and unique drops than normal. Not to mention more than double currency. It is that type of advantage that makes gearchecks passed in a more reasonable amount of time (and not such a grind), and allows the currency to sustain high-level maps (rerolls which one couldn't afford without such an advantage).

And that's just the typical MF advantage. The theoretical maximums on MF — without even using unique items, just rare affixes — are 163% IIQ, 417% IIR. That's over 13.5 times as many uniques and rares.

Currently, the game assumes some degree of IIQ and IIR in determining its pricing. Without any on your gear, upgrading gear takes forever, and maps are not sustainable. What we're trying to do here is narrow the gulf; we want zero IIQ/IIR to at least come closer to making gearchecks and sustaining maps.

What would this mean for IIQ/IIR stacker guy, playing solo?
Well, not much would change. 103% IIQ would be cut down to 51%, which would look bad on the stat sheet. But let's assume this character is farming the Docks (alvl 63); he'd be getting the 20% more bonus to global drops, as well as another 15% more bonus based on level. 1.51*1.2*1.15=2.08, so it would feel like 108% IIQ does now. 332% IIR would be cut down to 166%, but 2.66*1.2*1.31=4.18, which would feel like 318% IIR does now. +5 IIQ, -14 IIR... not really that big of a difference overall.

What would this mean for zero IIQ/IIR (melee) guy, playing solo?
Simply put, zero IIQ for a character at the Docks would feel like 38% IIQ feels now, and zero IIR would feel like 57% IIR feels now. That means 116% more (2.16x) rares and uniques for builds like melee that struggle to fit IIQ and IIR affixes onto their gear, narrowing the divide between those who stack MF and those who do not.

What would this mean for group play?
Dedicated Culling MF builds would still be highly valued by groups; 4x rare/unique drops is nothing to sneeze at. The loot output of tightly regimented groups wouldn't change much. However, Culling MFers wouldn't be quite as necessary as before; it would be a little easier to find a laid-back group which doesn't demand that the whole Culling MF plan work out to perfection.

Why not remove IIQ/IIR completely?
There's a whole, long thread dedicated to removing MF completely, but after consideration I've determined that this would be a terrible idea. For some players, building around MF stacking, and developing a great farming character, are the key draws this game offers. Itemization is bland to them if you take out affixes like IIQ and IIR; it's these items (and these uniques, like Andvarius) which draw them to the game and make them interested. Removing MF completely would leave these Spike-psychographic players without anything to love. We shouldn't do that to them.

Where I differ from the "remove MF completely" crowd is: although I see the problems in the strength of MF, I also don't want to burn bridges with the MF-lovers of this game. MF should be a viable build choice; we still want players to be able to make characters which are considerably more effective than normal characters at farming. What we don't want and don't need is for them to be so much more effective like they are now.

What's with the area level bonus?
It was just the best way to make the data fit. After originally posting this suggestion, PolarisOrbit pointed out that MF stacking isn't something the game starts off doing; the pace of magic find increases more slowly as the game goes on. This means you can't fix this kind of problem exclusively with flat, global increases to drop quantity and rarity. I picked the numbers so that the expected drops for a fully maxed-out MF build would vary as little as possible, given the assumption of halving the MF values on their gear. It's kind of hard to explain... so here's a couple charts. The first is absolute drops, the second is max-vs-zero MF comparison.



What about a diminishing returns formula?
Actually, according to the 0.9.9 patch notes, GGG already implemented one "for extreme situations." However, until I have harder numbers on what it does, I'm going to ignore its existence. If you happen to have any hard information on diminishing returns, please post it in this thread; right now, as far as I can tell, no one knows anything (who is willing to talk about it).

+1 on this

I agree. Mf in itself isn't a bad thing, but the number values we have are just ludicrous without having diminishing returns.

An increase to base rates is the most important part in my opinion, so that I can play my wacky builds and still get good amounts of loot.

+1

love your ideas scrotie +1

Hi

I agree Lower base mf numbers would be great like TL2. Whenever a player had a item with like 2-5% mf in TL2 they sure felt it. Or lets bring back the mf passives to skill tree.

My issue with mf is that GGG needs more options in how to gain mf. As much as I hate D3 I did like the gaining of passive mf after a certain level so a player didn't have to overly worry about stacking mf.


cheers

Uhh, this won't happen, it'll effect too much gear.. Your just gonna nerf all the hard work people put in crafting good MF gear ?

One true solution (1 item) : Nerf wondertraps

MF might be a problem for SC but it ant for HC =O

Gaining MF after lvl 100 like D3 would be nice, I can agree on that.

I came into this thread expecting some half-assed "hey let's just halve all the IIR lololol" suggestion, and instead I was met with a rather well-thought-out post on a way to keep things well-balanced. I approve.

Even though I think my idea of making mf a seventh independent affix is better and more available, making any build good at mf, I think your idea is simple and people seem to agree with you. Therefore +1. We need changes in the right direction.