Don't Remove MF from the Game; Just Cut it in Half

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

1. Changing IIQ from gear and maps to Increased Orb Quantity. This will solve screen clutter as well.

2. Making map MF additive with gear instead of multiplicative, while also giving maps IIR alongside IIQ (1 IIQ = 2 IIR).

1 isn't a horrible idea, but it's not required, either. You can have generalist mods (+% Spell Damage) and/or specialist mods (+% Lightning Damage). The thing is to make generalist mods balanced appropriately to reflect that they help with everything, with specialist mods (IIR in this case) also balanced appropriate to reflect taht they only help with specific things. Since IIR numbers are generally higher than IIQ numbers, I feel that we don't necessarily have a problem here, except that all of the numbers, both IIQ and IIR, are currently too high.

You yourself said in the OP that it's not the individual MF that's the issue. It's the fact that they multiply each other that makes MF powerful on magnitudes far higher than in D2. Changing IIQ to Increased Orb Quantity is not only a more elegant solution, it also kills two birds with one stone (the other bird being screen clutter).

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2, on the other hand, is a horrible idea. Wretched. Foul. It's basically saying, "Hey you, MF stacker guy? Right now you've focused so much on MF stacking that you're basically running Docks over and over instead of actually trying out end-game maps, and so far you're fine with this because you're hauling in huge stacks of loot. Well, now we want you to stay there. Forever. Don't try maps, because we'll burn you." Which is an extremely stupid-ass thing for mechanics to say. No, no, and no again.

It could go the other way as well.

"Hey you, MF stacker guy? Right now you've focused so much on MF stacking that you're basically running Docks over and over instead of actually trying out end-game maps, and so far you're fine with this because you're hauling in huge stacks of loot. Well, did you know maps now give tons of MF? If you like MF so much, why not try em out?"

MF stackers will still be just as map-viable as they are now, due to the increased MF values on maps compensating for the removal of multiplication. It's just that people without MF won't have to get MF anymore in order to compete.

Besides, going all-out on MF gear is the only current option for MF builds because maps aren't nearly rewarding enough. Making them more rewarding will make getting Power gear for MF builds more attractive without forcing people out of their playstyle.

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pneuma wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

I'm not an MF player, but I can say without a doubt that if GGG nerfed my weapon's damage I would be more upset than if they buffed the damage of weaker weapons.

I don't understand this mentality since the effect is the exact same, but I'll have to take your word for it. I hear it often and it always strikes me as too narrow of an outlook on the game. I've been playing for so long that all of my builds have been nerfed into the ground and then buffed into the heavens and then nerfed again. The sky did not fall and the game did not suddenly become not worth playing.

Here's another way to look at it... Which of these would annoy you the least:

- You're used to doing your thing and clearing maps in 3 minutes, and a patch later you're clearing maps in 5 minutes.

- You're used to doing your thing and clearing maps in 3 minutes. Nothing changes.

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Novalisk wrote:

- You're used to doing your thing and clearing maps in 3 minutes, and a patch later you're clearing maps in 5 minutes.

- You're used to doing your thing and clearing maps in 3 minutes. Nothing changes.

In the first case, all my other characters were clearing in ~5 minutes. Now all of my characters have roughly the same clear speed and I can focus on which playstyles I like instead of only the ones that get the most loot/minute.

In the second case, some or all of my other characters now clear in 3 minutes along with this one. Great, but the game was not balanced for 3 minute clear speeds. There still exists a gap between the builds I like and those that farm well.


To be perfectly clear, 3min to 5min is a 40% reduction. There are builds that have an order of magnitude higher clear speed than others. In terms of MF*killspeed, this is even more true.

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pneuma wrote:

In the second case, some or all of my other characters now clear in 3 minutes along with this one. Great, but the game was not balanced for 3 minute clear speeds.

3 minutes was just an example. It could be 5, 7, or whatever.

And what makes you so sure that the game wasn't balanced for a specific clear speed?

My main is a dual totem sporker.
And I love your idea.

#Time to get a sig

MF isn't the only way to make currency, you guys who don't want to make one could flip items, i did that and made 20 ex in one day.. But nooo, people don't want to put effort into anything.


Edit: I like the OP's point about some people liking farming rather than high level high speed clearing, I am one of them.. Why should my experience be taken away :(?

With the new 4 month leagues removing IIQ, that will probably cut overall MF in half. So... good job Scrotie!

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Peenk wrote:

MF isn't the only way to make currency, you guys who don't want to make one could flip items, i did that and made 20 ex in one day.. But nooo, people don't want to put effort into anything.


Edit: I like the OP's point about some people liking farming rather than high level high speed clearing, I am one of them.. Why should my experience be taken away :(?

"Item flipping" is a respectable term for "scamming".

Also, OP isn't jealous of people stacking mf.

I don't understand why people cry out against MF.
If you spend time to spec your character to have MF, in higher or lesser degrees then that is your reward at a loss of other rewards, such as tankiness, dps, progression etc. If you spec him to do dmg, tank, etc what ever it may be that is also your reward.
I would also like to point out, if you make it harder to find items then with the "free" market of this game, you will just raise the prices of the best items. Because the market will shrink or grow to fit the demand and supply.

Not to bring up politics but it reminds me of people wanting to spread wealth around. SO they want to cap the rich's earning etc.

Doesn't work irl and won't work in a game like this.

If you cap peoples MF by half then they would just farm twice as hard/long etc,

I personally have two mods of farming in party with about 100/360 or alone at 100/470

I have spent huge amounts of time to get those stats and still be viable late game. It costs me massive amounts of time, boring farming, trading, currency, lost me dps, tankiness, and some cool abilities and gems I would love to use.
Granted for this char I wanted a farming toon so I thought it was worth it, but I tell you what, I will never make one again. I have had little fun compared to my other toons.

If you want items then go find them.

People are mad because it is essentially REQUIRED to sustain high level mapping.