Our view on map drop rates

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Proven_Paradox wrote:

My experience so far with maps has been very un-fun. If we're supposed to chisel up every map, then chisels need to be dropping like orbs of alteration, not orbs of alchemy. I managed to climb up to level 64 for one map, and have sense dropped back to 60. It's a shitty feeling, and I've been running magic maps with decent quantity. I don't have the wealth to reasonably spend alchemy orbs on low level maps. If I got another 63 I might spend an alchemy and maybe a chaos on it, but throwing alchemy orbs at level 60 maps seems ridiculous.

I've just been leveling other characters instead, but as-is the map system just isn't fun to me. I'll still play the game, but not the end game.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not level 65? So why do you care about doing higher than level 60 maps right now. Any map you do over level 60 is a loss of exp for you later.

You need to plan your move to the next level of maps based on your current level, how much you are willing to spend on maps, and what your drop rates are.

Having a good base of 61 maps while you doing 60s doesnt mean you should move to 61s. If you are level 65, you should keep doing 60s until you start to get a loss of exp on 61s. If you move sooner, you are making a choice to lose exp. If you move sooner than you have the currency and map base to go, you are also making a choice to lose exp and likely go back down in map level.

During the race, my team was able to stay doing 65+ maps for over a week. This is running about 10 maps a day, just FYI. This is because we had built up enough maps to stay at that level.

Can you stay doing 65 maps forever? Very unlikely, but 64 maps you could, if you spend enough money on maps with chisels and rerolling 64+ maps is able to be held.

GGG doesnt want people in 69 maps non stop. So you need to get that out of your head.



TehHammer,
I'm not 100% sure yet, but I believe there was a nerf. Not in the # of maps but the level of maps that drop. However, this is limited data from only about 50 maps, compared to the other 200 maps we have data on.

I think the map conundrum stems from the fact that ofc GGG doesn't want 69 lvl maps dropping like candy, otherwise we would all be gobbling them up.

The way I see it is the root of the problem is that the maps are just too damn easy, especially if you are purely interested in lvling, heck you could do white lvl -69 maps all day if they dropped like candy.

I think GGG needs to significantly increase the base difficulty of maps overall. Perhaps white maps can come with various implicit mods, that don't add IIQ but simply act as a barrier of entry.

When a lvl 65 map drops on the ground, I want the player to say "oh shit this is going to kill me, I better rethink how I'm going to approach this" rather than "oh I hope I can get another map from this one pretty please but I have no control so w/e"

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FinalForm wrote:

I think the map conundrum stems from the fact that ofc GGG doesn't want 69 lvl maps dropping like candy, otherwise we would all be gobbling them up.

The way I see it is the root of the problem is that the maps are just too damn easy, especially if you are purely interested in lvling, heck you could do white lvl -69 maps all day if they dropped like candy.

I think GGG needs to significantly increase the base difficulty of maps overall. Perhaps white maps can come with various implicit mods, that don't add IIQ but simply act as a barrier of entry.

When a lvl 65 map drops on the ground, I want the player to say "oh shit this is going to kill me, I better rethink how I'm going to approach this" rather than "oh I hope I can get another map from this one pretty please but I have no control so w/e"

Id rather they just increase the monsters hp/dmg/movement speed etc for higher lvl mods, make like a lvl 64 20% harder then a 63 which in turn is 20% harder then a lvl 63, etc
this way it would actually be actually increasingly thougher to get to the higher lvl maps, and make those truly a risk for good rewards.
this would also make it alot harder to rush to high level maps, increasing the need for you to upgrade first before you can actually get there, making high lvl map farming more a issue of skill and gear then just pure luck.

Would be nice if 69 was close to impossible, making it something you need to plan for very carefully
I want the; Fuck yeah, i did X for the first time moments back :(

They could increase the amount of iiq a map mod would give depending on the level of a map, like 61 maps give +30% iiq for no regen mod, while 65 maps would give +45% and 69's give 60%
This would encourge you to get as high as you can.
PS: i just said random numbers, obviously those would need to be carefully balanced.

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MrDDT wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not level 65? So why do you care about doing higher than level 60 maps right now. Any map you do over level 60 is a loss of exp for you later.

Macabre_Paradox is 65 as of this posting, that's correct.

Conceptually, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that I have access to enemies of approximately my level to fight. That I'm not getting an XP penalty yet isn't entering into my equation: my highest level character is level 65, so I expect her opponents to be level 65 +/- 1 in most instances. (This also means I have problems with act 2's lack of structure, but that's not what this thread is about.) This does not seem like much to ask.

Having to grind for the opportunity to grind for the opportunity to grind (ect.) leaves a bad taste. Grind itself isn't the problem--peel off the pretty coating and one reveals grind at the core of any progression based game. It's gating me off access to enemies of an appropriate level that annoys me most.

At this point, I think I'd like to see something similar to the Maelstrom of Chaos added back in. If there's not going to be structured content to take a character to maximum level, just give us a sandbox with random enemies of equivalent level for us to fight. This doesn't even need to exclude maps: map drops can become an optional opportunity for bigger scores. Make them more difficult, maybe make it so that some items are only available from maps, and I would have no complaints.

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Proven_Paradox wrote:

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MrDDT wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not level 65? So why do you care about doing higher than level 60 maps right now. Any map you do over level 60 is a loss of exp for you later.

Macabre_Paradox is 65 as of this posting, that's correct.

Conceptually, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that I have access to enemies of approximately my level to fight. That I'm not getting an XP penalty yet isn't entering into my equation: my highest level character is level 65, so I expect her opponents to be level 65 +/- 1 in most instances. (This also means I have problems with act 2's lack of structure, but that's not what this thread is about.) This does not seem like much to ask.

Having to grind for the opportunity to grind for the opportunity to grind (ect.) leaves a bad taste. Grind itself isn't the problem--peel off the pretty coating and one reveals grind at the core of any progression based game. It's gating me off access to enemies of an appropriate level that annoys me most.

At this point, I think I'd like to see something similar to the Maelstrom of Chaos added back in. If there's not going to be structured content to take a character to maximum level, just give us a sandbox with random enemies of equivalent level for us to fight. This doesn't even need to exclude maps: map drops can become an optional opportunity for bigger scores. Make them more difficult, maybe make it so that some items are only available from maps, and I would have no complaints.

They cant do this else you would be level 100 in a few days, you will be asking for level 71 mobs, then 72, etc.

You are over the content level.

Also just FYI the level system will change with ACT3. You will never have access to level 100 mobs. Just not going to happen. You need to understand the idea that the max level is meant to be grinded to through lower level mobs. Once you hit end of act3 pretty much that's the end of even level mobs.

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MrDDT wrote:

They cant do this else you would be level 100 in a few days, you will be asking for level 71 mobs, then 72, etc.

"A few days" is probably strongly overestimating the rate at which I level, even with access to appropriately leveled monsters to fight. That aside, I don't see hitting the level cap as a problem personally. Yes, I'll be asking for level 71, 72, and so on monsters. I don't see where providing that would be a problem.

All I've said has just been one asshole's opinion--that's what feedback means, no? I don't like the endgame as it is, and would like to see access to endgame content that doesn't require grinding a lot of lower level monsters to enter (aside from the grinding needed to actually reach the endgamr, naturally). I still enjoy the game immensely, but I'm spending my time leveling other characters instead of in endgame. And that's totally fine; the endgame doesn't have to be for everyone. I've just stated what I'd like to see the endgame look like. If I don't get that, I still have dozens of builds I want to try out.

I started running maps for the first time today.


I will reserve my more in depth judgements for later on, when I have had more experience, but so far I would say that it would be nice to have a place outside of maps where people can play beyond level 55ish. As it stands, when you run even a simple map, you are spending money, which isnt a very good feeling.

Perhaps people should be able to run white maps for free but they cant be modified in any way?

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Proven_Paradox wrote:

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MrDDT wrote:

They cant do this else you would be level 100 in a few days, you will be asking for level 71 mobs, then 72, etc.

"A few days" is probably strongly overestimating the rate at which I level, even with access to appropriately leveled monsters to fight. That aside, I don't see hitting the level cap as a problem personally. Yes, I'll be asking for level 71, 72, and so on monsters. I don't see where providing that would be a problem.

All I've said has just been one asshole's opinion--that's what feedback means, no? I don't like the endgame as it is, and would like to see access to endgame content that doesn't require grinding a lot of lower level monsters to enter (aside from the grinding needed to actually reach the endgamr, naturally). I still enjoy the game immensely, but I'm spending my time leveling other characters instead of in endgame. And that's totally fine; the endgame doesn't have to be for everyone. I've just stated what I'd like to see the endgame look like. If I don't get that, I still have dozens of builds I want to try out.

yes it would probably still take a long time for most of us to get to cap but a more dedicated player could hit max level within a few weeks, and it should be balanced around them.

Don't expect to be fighting monsters the same level as you, just do 60-63 (you get more then enough of those to be able to do them forever by just transmuting them) maps until you feel that they don't give enough xp, and then slowly start climbing the map ladder.

Perhaps they should just rename map levels to ranks or something, just to make this more clear.

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MrDDT wrote:

They cant do this else you would be level 100 in a few days, you will be asking for level 71 mobs, then 72, etc.

Not at all. The experience curve can EASILY be adjusted so that it is just as difficult to get to level 100 when fighting mobs that are the same level as you are.

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BRavich wrote:

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MrDDT wrote:

They cant do this else you would be level 100 in a few days, you will be asking for level 71 mobs, then 72, etc.

Not at all. The experience curve can EASILY be adjusted so that it is just as difficult to get to level 100 when fighting mobs that are the same level as you are.

One of the main complaints I read is the lack of experience gain. Which they fail to understand to understand is supposed to be that way.