Why I'm quitting PoE and no longer recommending it to friends

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Rhalph wrote:

About recipes for guaranteed results, what about these ones ?

- Changing the colors of the slots in order to get slots 1-3 blue, slot 4 green, slot 5 red and slot 6 blue:
Item + 6 chromatic orbs + blue gem, blue gem, blue gem, green gem, red gem and blue gem (in that order).
(Order of slots :
1 2
3 4
5 6)

- Getting a guaranteed x-links on an item :
Item + 3^(x-1) orbs of fusing
(3 orbs for 2 links, 9 for 3L, 27 for 4L, 81 for 5L and 243 for 6L)


Just an idea, numbers would have to be adjusted. It has to cost enough to prefer grinding over merchant trading, but it has still to be doable without spending 4 months to grind.
The chromatic orbs needed for recipe #1 can be based on the amount of slots to change (3^(x-1) again, maybe :p)

When I last checked this thread, I started thinking about the general amount that people use to get those link amounts and really, this does seem a little bit higher at 4L, about right at 5L, and lower than average at 6L. However, you did choose a really good formula there.

I really wouldn't mind it if you just did some near, "round" number approximations for the amount of fusings required. However, the first thing to be noted is that to get 2L... you need exactly 1 fusing orb at the moment. It's a trivial value. Additionally, I feel that you should only be able to upgrade an item with a recipe like this. Buying a 6L from an unlinke 6 socket, though very viable with the RNG, doesn't seem like a legit way to upgrade. So, in addition to giving a slight increase in price, I feel that

So, these are the values I'd round up to:

3L: 10 Fusings + a 2L item
4L: 25 Fusings + a 3L item
5L: 100 Fusings + a 4L item
6L: 250 Fusings + a 5L item

This would just be a guaranteed recipe, to increase the links of an item by 1 step. Note that, to go from a 4L to a 6L would require 350 Fusing Orbs. I have heard 300 cited a few times as a roundabout average number, but I'm really not assuming that enough data from players has been taken to properly make that assumption. So this recipe is higher than that amount, but if that is not the right amount anyway, of course these numbers would be quite adjustable.

I don't like guaranteed recipes being so low, which is why Chris suggested a ridiculous number like 1500.

There should honestly be a fair trade off: You can sell your 5L + 500~ fusings to get a guaranteed 6L, or you can gamble 500 and hope you'll get it and save some.

What if using a fuse orb were altered this way:

None of the current math odds change at all. However, if when you use your fusing orb, if the 'roll' comes up worse than what you currently have, nothing happens (other than the consumption of that orb).

This way, no math needs to change, but a player could never make backward progress, and would be much more willing to try to improve their prized 4L or 5L, instead of risking it on a longshot.

Yeah or we could have the orb of Ctrl Z ! :D

"

TheSwampDog wrote:

What if using a fuse orb were altered this way:

None of the current math odds change at all. However, if when you use your fusing orb, if the 'roll' comes up worse than what you currently have, nothing happens (other than the consumption of that orb).

This way, no math needs to change, but a player could never make backward progress, and would be much more willing to try to improve their prized 4L or 5L, instead of risking it on a longshot.

That would make fusing orb far too strong. The gamble is the only way to make 6L just a little bit rare, since players with 6S 5L items will think twice about just pouring fusing orbs on it at random. Not having any drawback to using Fusing Orbs is not a solution. It is an abomination of an idea.
You have to be a lot more creative to reduce the need for fusing orbs in late-game. Maybe it takes a complete removal of the 6L option from the fusing orb and a new item to potentially "copy" links from other items onto the 6S item, maybe an orb eating 20% quality, 6 affixes and making the item immune to orb of alchemy to gain you one extra link or maybe it takes a larger change in the mechanics of the game. Either way, so be it. The "no drawback" suggestions are in my opinion worse than the current solution.

Like mentioned before the problem is not that anyone NEEDS 6Ls to progress, its that everyone is always trying to better their characters...

Lets just say you get a rare chest piece with 3 sockets, you finally roll/modify that piece to get the stat bonuses you want at the right values on the range... You spend hundreds of orbs to get a 4 or 5 slot item. The "End Game" in every game is seeking the "end" of the "game" by maxing out your character or beating the content. For many, beating the content (especially in PoE) is not enough. Players want to max their characters to be the "best they can be" to "show off" and dominate in PvP. It just really creates a bad taste when someone feels they cant take the risk of trying to mod their 5L item because they risk it dropping back to 1 socket... I DONT think the solution is to never reduce a socket. There needs to be the risk/reward tradeoff. One easy way to do it is guarantee the orb only adds/removes 1 slot. So a 5 slot could only be rolled into a 4 or 6... This would eliminate the pain of it dropping from a 5 to a 2... Also, I think it would be prudent to reduce the drop rates of 5 AND 6 slot items making them almost only attainable through using orbs. This makes one start with a 3 or 4 and then build up from there. versus trying to find a NEW item with the sockets you want, or spending hundreds of orbs to RNG your 6 slot, with many losses along the way. Makes you feel like you cant do that with your gear but must try for it on a seperate piece of gear...

For end game discussion. The end game should NOT be RNG as stated, it needs to be something attainable that you crawl towards inch by inch.

Eventually everyone gets the best gear, and beats the content even sooner then getting the best gear, so what is the true "end game"

This is where world bosses come in, world pvp, etc. Either way, the endgame should NOT be about RNG to get 6 slot items, which seems to be the "end all be all" of the game...

OPINION:

d3 has several problems that poe won't have. the d3 team decided that leveling is boring, that respecing the build should be as easy as clicking a button and not a leveling marathon, that maps should be more predictable, and that all there was to d2 was item grind. sure many complained about those things, but many complain about many things focusing on the self and not realizing the surrounding environment and circumstances of their self and how their self actually behaves.

when you remove all the elements that made the game on the way to the item grind, you essentially make the item grind pointless. checking a new build in a matter of seconds never distracts you from the boring item grind. never having to level beyond one time for each of the characters guarantees nobody ever starts a new game. virtually no randomization in maps makes the game too predictable and farming even more boring than it should be. the only thing that delayed that game's complete failure is maybe hardcore. but progression is so slow with the gear and nothing else to do that even hardcore becomes boring once you learn all the aspects of the game and know how to stay alive. human nature is what eludes the d3 developers, and human nature is what GGG understand.

would you do maps just for the sake of maps? without the chance to get a good drop? without the experience that advances you in levels? would you mindlessly grind an area for experience? or maybe for an item? how long can you keep doing any of those by themselvess? it is the combination of things - chance to get a good drop, advancement in experience and levels, getting orbs and crafting, that makes the game great. remove one element of those, and it would start falling apart. make fusing orbs more effective, and you will flood the market with them and ruin them, making the link hunt non-existent. the more elements of your hunting that you remove, the more trivial it would all look to your inner self and the more bored the self that you know (let's call it the outer self) would be. and even though removing all those things seemed like a good idea to your outer self, that self, contrary to popular belief and western philosophy, is not what controls your actions and moods.

go deep enough inside yourself to actually look at yourself from a distance (paradoxes are essential, and no philosopher can remove them without damaging the integrity of the meaning), explore human nature and realize what drives you toward your goals, what makes you interested and what makes you bored, and you will find that what you complain about is what makes the game fun. those of you like me who played d3 have it easy since they don't need to discover themselves, human nature, or the meaning of life the universe and everything. they can just compare and analyze their experiences from both games (provided they're here because they like this game more) and perhaps join me in this point of view.

The assumption made above is that how the game is now is the perfect formula for the game... While I agree that PoE Devs are 10x better then D3 Devs, that doesnt mean its perfect yet.

Noone is saying get rid of any item hunt or make things this way and reduce the complexity of the game.

The biggest problem is that end game isnt about finding better drops now, the entire currency system is structured so when you HAVE those drops (from running maps) you now create/modify your items to get them better. THIS is the nature of the frustration.

One of the things the MURDERED D3 is that there was nothing worth while doing in short bursts of time. Logging for 30 min didnt do anything, and this is my fear in PoE, logging in for 30 minutes to get a few extra orbs will NOT keep you coming back. Why? Because the orbs are all about RNG and NOT something you inch forward in character progression.

I agree, I want a tedious seemingly "never ending" game. But I also want to feel like my 2 hours on a Sat isnt wasted by running 3 map runs with friends and then crossing my fingers the orbs I got will do what I want...

The best way to do this is really weigh the risk/reward aspects of the game. Right now it is beneficial to get a 6L item. When you have currently a 5L item, it is not worth the risk to try and mod that any further, since its such a high chance it will not increase. Hence why people are getting bored and frustrated that they cannot achieve any further progression because the progression is ALL based on RNG...

I dont think it needs to be "easier" to get a 6 slot, but I DO think there needs to be a little "downside protection" when taking a 4 or 5 slot and trying to upgrade it... The risk is not worth the reward currently and once you get to the end game maps, what is the thing that drives you? More/Better gear! What happens when you have the top tier gear with the stats you prefer? Now you need slots! How do you get slots? RNG!

This is NOT a good formula. Alleviate the "downside" of the 5 slot items dropping to a 1 or 2 slot and you will have happier players. You want them feeling like every hour spent counts in some way...

the MOST popular F2P games did not rely on RNG, they all were based upon social/competitive aspects. Again, look at Runescape, the most successful F2P game. Almost infinite leveling system with content the ENTIRE way, hardcore pvp and the item hunt was over within half the levels.. I am not saying the item hunt should be reduced at all, but the focus should not be on finding those items, but USING them! Isnt that what drives you to get better items? to kill more monsters and progress? What happens when that is over? PvP is only 1 answer...

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Chris wrote:

If there was a vendor recipe to guarantee six linked sockets if you traded in 1500 fusings, would you use it?

Edit: I'm not saying it takes 1500 fusings to get six linked sockets :P

As many others have said, fusings are uniquely horrible in that there is no reward for failures, since 4l and below is worthless (unlike say Chaos where often you don't get what you specifically want, but it's still useful trade bait).

So a recipe would be nice (though 1500 is too high if 1 in 300 is the approximate chance at 6l).

But I like the idea of using fusings and getting incremental progress out of each one, so you have the psychological satisfaction of knowing it was not a total loss.

So the idea that every 150th or whatever fuse you get a permament link is pretty cool. Or you could simply have increasing chance to hit 6l the most fuses you go, so at 900 fuses or whatever you're almost gauranteed.

In any case, numbers going up every time you perform an action is a good thing! A thing that fusings do not currently supply :(

I really don't think that you need this. But I see that many people do things with orbs that they are not meant to. If you have a 5l Weapon you are not meant to upgrade this weapon, because you may destroy it in the progress.

I guess I read this in another thread from GGG and you are meant to upgrade your gear not by upgrading your items, but by constructing new items, that are better than the ones you are wearing.

I always find it stupid to turn a 5l into a 6l, since having a 5l is unlikely in the first place. So it is normally better to upgrade a new item. I posses two Unique 2h-Maces and gradually upgrade them and always use the better one of both. I was hoping to turn one of them into a 6l around christmas (if the closed beta goes that long), so I was calculating 3-4 Months for this to happen at minimum (I guess about 6-8 months is more appropriate, but my time-frame was limited by the end of the close beta^^).

I have no idea why people believe that a 6l is something that you need to definitly posses at some time. If you have a good rare/unique 5l you should be happy about it.

If you change the work of fusings, why not change drops the same way? Or Orbs of Chaos? Or Jeweler Orbs? Initiating a progress like this would only create new diskussions about similar mechanics working the same way. So just keep it as it is.