Evasion Isn't bad - A Revolutionary Breakthrough

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pandahands wrote:

arm prevents death much better is the argument. Not that evasion isn't possible to use, it's that it's not as good

The counter argument is that the only time you need the armor is against massive hits, and at that point it becomes near useless anyway. With a high chance to evade and enough life to take at least one big hit (with a granite), you pretty much can't go down because you'll never take two consecutive big hits due to the way the evade mechanic gets forced.

The nightmare scenario of a hard-hitting monster landing a critical hit and scoring on the high end of its damage roll is fantastically unlikely on a high-Evasion character. You might see it once, but if you're playing softcore it's really nothing to worry about. Far more deaths come about because of simple carelessness or from trying to tank something that you should never allow to hit you anyway, like the Vaal Oversoul slam.

If you really need to tank some huge physical hit, don't bother with Armour - use Immortal Call.

Although in terms of passive-tree-distance it doesn't combine well, in terms of pure strategy evasion and Immortal Call synergize better than armour.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Although in terms of passive-tree-distance it doesn't combine well, in terms of pure strategy evasion and Immortal Call synergize better than armour.

Yup, I've said this myself. Actually in terms of passives it's OK - you can pick up the extra Endurance charge in the Duelist area, +1 from Oak in Merciless, take the skill duration passives on the Ranger/Duelist path to the centre, maybe wear a Kaom's sign (or two), and remember to support your Immortal Call with increased duration. It's not the strongest possible Immortal Call, but it should certainly be usable in emergencies.

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Yup, I've said this myself. Actually in terms of passives it's OK - you can pick up the extra Endurance charge in the Duelist area, +1 from Oak in Merciless, take the skill duration passives on the Ranger/Duelist path to the centre, maybe wear a Kaom's sign (or two), and remember to support your Immortal Call with increased duration. It's not the strongest possible Immortal Call, but it should certainly be usable in emergencies.

IC + IncDuration (given at least some % on both) for lvl17 skill is around 10+ seconds. hardly 'short time' given poe pace

I see somewhere in this thread an alt of an avid Armor lover (recently banned for trolling) repeating ad nauseum the same theoretical arguments

btw to anyone saying that 'barely' dying is not enough. when you play softcore you tend to do stupid things and die. yesterday i've died 7 times on my lvl81 mara due to a thing called Intoxicated Grinding. Would have never ever tried that with HC character.

Also - ALT-F4 makes this HC viability a moot point. In softcore you simply do not care that much to press 'logout' at the first sign of danger. And dying on a lvl80+ char to a desync is an experience that makes me always quit the game for some time.


Pure evasion builds are viable, are fun and with added armor/ES can be really powerful. And who stops people from using granite plus some hybrid gear? BTW looking for an upgrade to this (got some exalts), MUST have HP:




This puppy makes harder encounters trivial due to knockback (dont mind the gems, just random stuff)

So sad that it is not based on Imperial Bow..

Looks like ranged evasion is pretty sweet.

I am melee evasion and I think I have pretty decent gear.
The changes to evasion have helped my build a lot, but it is still a crapshoot every time I encounter a large number of mobs. Evasions entropy mechanic means I am actually more afraid of monsters white all the way up to rare than I am of bosses because the sheer number of attacks being directed towards me ensures the entropy mechanic is triggered.

Bosses like kole or the leaping guy in maps and anything else with hugely powerful attacks usually cant hit me. This is because blind, enfeeble, block chance, and evasion all work together in such a way that they usually never connect. Its getting to the bosses thats tough for me.

The only time kole ever connects aside from the odd one groundsmash that connects is when he chains me from offscrren before I engage him,

Hell, I didnt even know the butcher guy jumped around like a maniac until I did one those maps in a group.

The thing is, when you do get hit it hurts and it hurts bad. Sometimes I get one-shotted.

But really evasion is great for facetanking single difficult mobs if you support it correctly but the big weakness is lots of smaller hits. When a pack of rhoas charges me i KNOW at least a couple are going to hit and with very little armor its going to hurt bad. This is why I always keep 2 granites depending on what I need. One with 100% armor and one with staunching. I also have a 70% total quicksilver for when I need to get the heck out there(I dont really like the movement skills in this game for some reason.).

I think the key is minimizing the enemies chance to attack so that you reduce the number of attacks rolled against your evasion.

Spells suck for evasion even with phase acrobatics they are extremely likely to hit. Luckily resists are flat reduction and ele flasks help for the extra tough enemies.

As a melee player I much prefer evasion over stacking armor becuase armor doesnt mitigate the biigest hits but evasion can prevent getting hit in the first place.

Evasion sucks. There isnt a single top tier / very high level player in hardcore using evasion. Says it all doesnt it?

You did 71 maps ok ... as a ranger. And what map? what mods? Theres still 72 to 77 maps to go.

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

As a melee player I much prefer evasion over stacking armor becuase armor doesnt mitigate the biigest hits but evasion can prevent getting hit in the first place.

Armor does mitigate the biggest hits. I have taken 600 dmg from kole on a 4k+ pool and been left with 2000+ life on a vaal smash. Why? I invested in armor. What you speak of, about armor 'not working vs big hits' is utter fallacy, a myth perpetrated by parrots who listened to some dude who didnt invest in armor and got wrecked once stepping foot in merciless.

Also, for melee ... something that works with both armor and evasion, and is just like evasion except 1000 times better is called block. You might want to look it up. Block is better vs attacks than evasion (you can take US so no stuns, you can take RT and lioneyes and still block reflect, but then you cant evade it), and spell block >>>>> phase acrobatics. Block is a flat 75% (somehow feels like 95% though), evasion depends on mob's accuracy for its %.

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jsn006 wrote:

Evasion sucks. There isnt a single top tier / very high level player in hardcore using evasion. Says it all doesnt it?

You did 71 maps ok ... as a ranger. And what map? what mods? Theres still 72 to 77 maps to go.

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

As a melee player I much prefer evasion over stacking armor becuase armor doesnt mitigate the biigest hits but evasion can prevent getting hit in the first place.

Armor does mitigate the biggest hits. I have taken 600 dmg from kole on a 4k+ pool and been left with 2000+ life on a vaal smash. Why? I invested in armor. What you speak of, about armor 'not working vs big hits' is utter fallacy, a myth perpetrated by parrots who listened to some dude who didnt invest in armor and got wrecked once stepping foot in merciless.

Also, for melee ... something that works with both armor and evasion, and is just like evasion except 1000 times better is called block. You might want to look it up. Block is better vs attacks than evasion (you can take US so no stuns, you can take RT and lioneyes and still block reflect, but then you cant evade it), and spell block >>>>> phase acrobatics. Block is a flat 75% (somehow feels like 95% though), evasion depends on mob's accuracy for its %.

It would appear you didnt read my entire post.
I emphasize the importance of supporting evasion with things such as block and blind and enfeeble.
As for armor not mitigating big hits, it is not reliable due to crits which will shred your armor.

Had kole critted you it would have hurt much more than 600.
As for a vaal smash crit Im not completely sure if you would even still be alive after that.
Plus vaal smash is irrelevant because it bypasses evasion anyways so the best bet is always to avoid it.

At least with evasion I know that after enfeeble and blind I have probably like 80-90% chance to not get hit, then if they do hit I have 33% block.

Also, im sure you are running endurance charges which compliment armor very well, the armor by itself, IMO, is weaker vs stronger bosses than evasion by itself.

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

As for armor not mitigating big hits, it is not reliable due to crits which will shred your armor.

Had kole critted you it would have hurt much more than 600.
As for a vaal smash crit Im not completely sure if you would even still be alive after that.
Plus vaal smash is irrelevant because it bypasses evasion anyways so the best bet is always to avoid it

'what about crit?' is utter ignorance / pathetic counterargument

kole critted, and vaal critted

I take like 450 on a non crit kole and stay at 3-4k on non crit vaal

50k armor my friend, with enfeeble ofc

kole does 3k on a crit now, with little to no mitigation (tested all this ingame, i love numbers and testing) before it was ~4k (they nerfed him, remember)

3000 x 12 = 36k

But I have enfeeble on, thats around 75% overall reduction on a crit, vs bosses, paired with the -crit dmg nodes. (3000 / 1.5 = 2000 x 0.83 (17% enfeeble vs bosses) = 1660 x 1.25 (50% crit multiplier reduction from nodes and enfeeble at 50% effectiveness vs bosses = 30% + 19.5%) = 2075

2075 x 12 = 24,900

53.200 armor

53200 / 78100 = 68% reduction = 0.32 x 2075 = 664 dmg

Wasnt even using charges, lmao


You know, going 'I admit you are right' will not kill you. But I understand, I know people who will break their arms just to get their point across anyway, even if they know they are wrong.


PS No I was NOT using charges. WHy is it SO HARD to believe?!?

and saying 'armor is weaker than evasion' is RETARDED, because avoidance =/= mitigation!

OK you are right about armor, I havent played a high armor character since th changes so I will admit my point on that was ill informed.

However, when you get hit by kole as an armor character you are likely to get hit more than once.

As an evasion character IF I get hit at all, I KNOW he is not going to hit again for at least a couple more attacks at which point he is dead anyways and it doesnt really matter. Sometimes I have to stop killing kle for just a second if he hit me once, not because he will kill me but because the explosion of his corpse(the enemies he hangs with usually) is more likely to kill me then, that is what I fear in the kole fight, the effects of his death.

That should say something as to the power of evasion.