Remove MF completely from game

I love to use a MF char. I don't want to be forced into just building a char that focuses on DPS/Tank and have to run endless maps. For me that just isn't fun once you hit god mode and can destroy any map any mods. I like loot and I will always make a mf char when mf is available. To me, MF chars are what keeps me playing trying to find those really rare items. I don't run maps. That's my sacrifice for running a MF char and im completely fine with that. Maps offer mf bonus for the dps/tank chars so im not really why this thread even exists. It's pointless like saying that Ranged or Melee chars should be removed.

I'd rather they remove the resistance penalties for cruel and merciless because stacking resistances is BORING and REQUIRED.

Magic find is an interesting stat and if they added more interesting stats it could make the game more complex and interesting in developing your character.

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WraethDestroyer wrote:

I'd rather they remove the resistance penalties for cruel and merciless because stacking resistances is BORING and REQUIRED.

Magic find is an interesting stat and if they added more interesting stats it could make the game more complex and interesting in developing your character.

Honestly I think this post (possibly unintentionally) best describes how I feel about the petition to remove MF completely. Resists are REQUIRED, but no one thinks those are an issue. IIR/IIQ is an OPTION, but people scream like it's necessity... Makes sense.

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Destello wrote:

There are plenty of ARPG without MF and things are not free in them. Also considerer that in those games nobody is claiming to add it; that is because nobody misses what they don't want. You’ll see people asking for pets, dyes, housing, and many “non-combat” things, but nobody wants MF if it doesn’t exist (and when exists is hated by most, proved on this whole thread).

You're right, there are games without it, but what you just described are cash shop additions. This is a free to play game and "vanity" gear is for cash paying players, that's how the FTP market works. So I don't really see what those things have to do with each other. My comment was directed at the idea that those who want removal of MF want to find good items without gearing to do so. Which is all in all, getting things for free. They want to remove the EFFORT and have things fall into their lap, circumventing the planning and gearing the rest of us are putting into using the MF system.

I also still feel like everyone who is trying to get it removed is, once again, kind of selfish. There are no stats on which group is the majority but what I can say is that plenty of people do like it, enough that those who don't are essentially trying to take something away from other players simply because they don't like doing it. I don't want to call people "wrong" for not wanting to do it, but I also just can't understand the arrogance at "the game should completely change to suit my play style" which is what most of the anti-MF posts in this thread seem to boil down to. (I have seen a couple of valid arguments, but most of those aren't so much MF in itself, but more MF in it's implementation.)


Edit: One more comment is that I think a middle ground actually might serve everyone best. Rather than remove the system entirely, boost base drops rates significantly and reduce the max values of IIR/IIQ. I think even if the end "maxed" result was less than it is now, it seems that would be the closest thing to making everyone happy. Cause the closest thing I've seen to a REAL argument, and I can agree with this one, is that wearing 0 IIR, you basically get nothing but whites. Obviously nothing but white items is boring and uninteresting and of course effects ALL builds.

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WraethDestroyer wrote:

I'd rather they remove the resistance penalties for cruel and merciless because stacking resistances is BORING and REQUIRED.

I don't think it's boring, even on the builds on which it's required... which is the vast majority of builds, no doubt, but I've made builds that run low maps with negative resistances and live just fine. Oh, the joys of being a summoner.

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NindeNoxx wrote:

Post removed cause arguing on the forums is pointless.

If anyone here posting to remove MF doesn't realize how arrogant they sound, I'm sure GGG does.

GGG's original intention was to gate drops via difficulty, like with the map system. I'm pretty sure they were not originally intending to include MF affixes on items until player nostalgia for D2 convinced them to. I believe this was a mistake, and I believe that GGG realizes that MF is problematic too, which is why they have been experimenting with things like Exiles, drops gated by map level, and the removal of IIQ in new leagues.

Apparently, you know better than GGG, because they seem to think that the existing MF system requires tweaking.

"doesn't realize how arrogant they sound" is more accurate than you realize, just not the way you think.

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Karcaroth wrote:

Apparently, you know better than GGG, because they seem to think that the existing MF system requires tweaking.

Exactly! Tweaking... not removal.

The fact that the OP said stacking rarity is the only way to go shows that he doesn't have much insight in the system.

In endgame maps you can farm three things:

1. rare/unique items
2. currency
3. socketed/high level base items


1. is based on rarity which limits your killspeed and survivability by stacking it (unless you spend absurd amounts of currency on gear that does both)

2. and 3. is based on quantity which you can't really stack anymore in the new leagues which leaves map quantity and kill speed as the sole factors of gaining those things.
I have yet to see someone stacking rarity that can faceroll 76+ maps, by stacking I mean go all the way with lowlife and whatnot.

Being able to faceroll every map roll and run 100+ quantity maps seems pretty balanced to running lower maps with less quantity but more rarity.

I think GGG has done a good job balancing rarity vs. killspeed.

Also removing rarity completely would just mean another part of the gameplay removed.
Next steps would then be removing the passive tree and turning items into stat sticks and voilà we just turned PoE into Diablo 3.

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NindeNoxx wrote:

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Destello wrote:

There are plenty of ARPG without MF and things are not free in them. Also considerer that in those games nobody is claiming to add it; that is because nobody misses what they don't want. You’ll see people asking for pets, dyes, housing, and many “non-combat” things, but nobody wants MF if it doesn’t exist (and when exists is hated by most, proved on this whole thread).

You're right, there are games without it, but what you just described are cash shop additions. This is a free to play game and "vanity" gear is for cash paying players, that's how the FTP market works. So I don't really see what those things have to do with each other. My comment was directed at the idea that those who want removal of MF want to find good items without gearing to do so. Which is all in all, getting things for free. They want to remove the EFFORT and have things fall into their lap, circumventing the planning and gearing the rest of us are putting into using the MF system.

I also still feel like everyone who is trying to get it removed is, once again, kind of selfish. There are no stats on which group is the majority but what I can say is that plenty of people do like it, enough that those who don't are essentially trying to take something away from other players simply because they don't like doing it. I don't want to call people "wrong" for not wanting to do it, but I also just can't understand the arrogance at "the game should completely change to suit my play style" which is what most of the anti-MF posts in this thread seem to boil down to. (I have seen a couple of valid arguments, but most of those aren't so much MF in itself, but more MF in it's implementation.)


Edit: One more comment is that I think a middle ground actually might serve everyone best. Rather than remove the system entirely, boost base drops rates significantly and reduce the max values of IIR/IIQ. I think even if the end "maxed" result was less than it is now, it seems that would be the closest thing to making everyone happy. Cause the closest thing I've seen to a REAL argument, and I can agree with this one, is that wearing 0 IIR, you basically get nothing but whites. Obviously nothing but white items is boring and uninteresting and of course effects ALL builds.

Pal, in first place stop saying that we want stuff for free, we only want to fight for stuff, not to “tweak” the game-core by strange mechanics. MF is an “administrative” stat introducing in Diablo 2 that (fortunately) very few ARPGs have copied. Probably the best ARPG I ever played, Titan Quest (and now its successor Grim Dawn) haven’t MF, being more complex, deeply and challenging.

RPG with MF
-Diablo 2
-Sacred (among thousands of crap from other games mixed all together like the “Bargaining” stat)
-Path of Exile

Pure ARPG
-Diablo 3 (in process, at least they are learning from their errors)
-Dungeon Siege
-Titan Quest
-Grim Dawn
-Silverfall
-Loki
-Nox
-Kult
-Revenant
-Darkstone
-Borderlands
-Space Siege
-Restricted Area
-Legend Hand of God
-Mage Knight Apocalypse
-Realms of Ancient War
-Dawn of Magic
-Avencast
And much more that I forget right now...

I’m not pretending to point that majority is better, only that the core of ARPG mechanics is focused on combat, while other things like crafting are completely separated from combat itself in ARPGs.

And pals, stop comparing with resistances who are combat stats while MF is only a “free” penalty invented from nowhere...

MF is an “administrative” stat into our builds, when they should be out of our builds (like crafting). Even people who think enjoy MF they just enjoy the results, not the combat itself.

You think you like MF because it exist and you have managed to take advantage of it, but could be any other wired stat like Negotiation, Speechcraft, Luck, or even Stealing that fits (more or less) understandably in RPGs but they are (at least) annoying in A-RPGs which are focused in combat.

Regards.

Snip.

Its not that I want removal of magic find, its just I would prefer its integration into normal gameplay rather then just being a additional stat on gear that benefits some builds more then others and allows for easily finding anything out of a barrel that can be found on a act boss with a lot more work.

Something more along the lines of basing the quality of the loot on the extent of the challenge (so the tougher the mob the better, not being more, the loot). I would also seriously reduce the junk that drops even if it lowered total drop rates as there is no real point in dropping stuff that not even a level 1 fresh off the boat would use. As far as quantity, I'd leave it out as a gear scalable stat and introduce bound versions of the currency (and keep the old ones) that have a much higher then average drop rate and only serve the purpose to be used, with more lower level currency dropping at higher levels as well.*


Stack those with party wide quantity bonuses and there is pretty much no need to have it gated on peoples gear as optimizing a team and taking on the stuff that can kill you would now have the best chance for the best gear (instead of farming breakables and low level content), and with being in a team on a map giving the best drop numbers with the offset being that everything is that much harder to kill and that more likely to kill you.





* I also made a suggestion once about soft requirements and scaling that fits well here, using a tighter prefix+affix pool so that gear is not only more attuned to its likely intended use but also partially scales up toward what its replacement will be leaving less gear that is utterly useless. I also made a suggestion on altering the item tiers (normal/magic/rare/unique) so that normal and magic gear would serve a purpose that a player may actually desire to equip a item of that tier.


and, yes, as a culling magic finding summoner build I'd be negatively impacted by such a change as I would have to actually place myself at risk in order to get more rewards compared to how I can just farm lower level content faster for more over time the way I can do now.... but at least it would make farming for gear less boring and give me incentive to farm tougher stuff for a higher average quality of rewards.