Iron Reflexes

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With the correct IR formula, we can actually answer some practical questions on the best way to build around IR. How should we distribute Armor and Evasion nodes, and which armors should we wear?

First lets imagine we have three sets of armor, each with 100 defense points to spend on armor and evasion. Let's call them Heavy (100 Armor), Medium (50 Armor 50 Evasion) and Light (100 Evasion). Let's also assume that we have 100 points in the passive tree that we can spread between +armor and +evasion. The following table shows what the final armor values look like for this imaginary set up.

"

+Am +Ev Hvy Med Lgt
0% 100% 100 150 200
10% 90% 110 155 200
20% 80% 120 160 200
30% 70% 130 165 200
40% 60% 140 170 200
50% 50% 150 175 200
60% 40% 160 180 200
70% 30% 170 185 200
80% 20% 180 190 200
90% 10% 190 195 200
100% 0% 200 200 200

We can see that in this idealized situation, Pure Evasion armor is always best, no matter how you have your nodes distributed.

Let's stop looking at Heavy armor now, because it doesn't benefit from +evasion or IR at all, so if you are wearing it, stop.

Instead, let's look at the top level equipment, we compare Assassin's Garb (525 eva) vs. Triumphant Lamellar (271 a 340 e). In this case, we see

"

+AM +EV AGrd TL
0% 100% 1050 951
10% 90% 1050 978.1
20% 80% 1050 1005.2
30% 70% 1050 1032.3
40% 60% 1050 1059.4
50% 50% 1050 1086.5
60% 40% 1050 1113.6
70% 30% 1050 1140.7
80% 20% 1050 1167.8
90% 10% 1050 1194.9
100% 0% 1050 1222

The Medium armor actually gets a higher total armor value at the end. This may seem confusing at first, but it's because the total defense value of the TL is significantly higher (611) than the total defense value of the Assassin's Guard (525). So, assuming your +armor% is 37% or more of your total +armor and +evasion, the TL will give you a higher defense.

Basically, take whichever armor gives you the most total defense points between pure evasion and mixed eva/armor. If you are in pure evasion armor, your point distribution between armor and evasion is irrelevant. If you are in mixed armor, you'd rather have more of your total +%age be armor.

Edit: Looking through the rest of the armors, always take Slink Gloves and Slink Boots, Armor and Helm will depend on your passive layout.

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Nirosu wrote:

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Cronos988 wrote:

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SquiglyJim wrote:

Does this mean taking both leather and steel, and other armor and evasion passives will be more beneficial when it comes to taking Iron Reflexes, or does it mean its better to go straight for flat evasion? Will the armor % increase apply after the conversion from Evasion to armor?

No, the armor % increase applies to your base armor and your base evasion, then they get added together.

Actually, using x% armor passives is more beneficial when you go for Iron Reflexes, because it will boost any base armor you might have and has the highest % values.

Assuming this is true what Keyan last said would be incorrect. In that the example I last said would end up as A.
The situation was say you have piece of armor that gives 100 armor and 100 evasion rating. You take a 30% evasion rating node, a 10% armor rating node, a 8% leather and steel node, and iron reflexes.
The equation for final armor value would then be
Final armor = 100 * (1+0.1+.08) + 100 *(1+0.3+0.1+.08)

Correct?

That is exactly what I had said...

@Azuroth:

Remember that evasion rating gets a pretty significant buff from dex. 200 Dex are another +40% Evasion rating, which puts your final table like this:

"

+AM +EV AGrd TL
0% 100% 1260 1087
10% 90% 1260 1114,1
20% 80% 1260 1141,2
30% 70% 1260 1168,3
40% 60% 1260 1195,4
50% 50% 1260 1222,5
60% 40% 1260 1249,6
70% 30% 1260 1276,7
80% 20% 1260 1303,8
90% 10% 1260 1330,9
100% 0% 1260 1358

You can see that the break-even point shifts farther down the line. At 60% Dex bonus and 100% armor, the ratio is 1365 (pure eva) to 1426. The Advantage from using mixed gear is: 16% with 0 dex, 7 % with 200 dex and 4,5% with 300 dex.

Conclusion: Mixed gear is technically still the best, but depending where you start on the tree (many rangers get +48% evasion with the first 4 points), pure dex might be better.

All in all, I think the balance of defensive Keystones needs some work in PoE. Unwavering Stance and Acrobatics aren't really tradeoffs. They are more like "boost your chosen form of defence". Iron Reflexes is good precisely because armor can be further buffed with unwavering stance. On it's own, it would provide almost nothing. Instead of 50% evasion and 50% mitigation, you get 75% mitigation. The result is the same.

Just to see whether I got it now.

IF I have the following passive nodes:
Iron Reflexes
Inner Force
AND am running
Molten Shell
Grace
Determination
WHILE wearing
a Shield
THEN the formula (as far as I understood the armour calculation) should look like this:


Legend:
%a (percentage bonus pure armour (eg Steel Skin))
%aES (percentage bonus armour AND energy shield (eg Body and Soul))
%aEva (percentage bonus armour AND evasion (eg Leather and Steel))
%Eva (percentage bonus pure evasion (eg Reflexes, Dex-Bonus))
%EvaS (percentage bonus evasion AND energy shield (eg Nullification))

As is obvious "armour" has to be taken as the value, not the equipment.
Furthermore any boni will fall into only one of the above categories (see examples given), thusly preventing it being calculated twice. Should any tripple tank node be introduced I'm sure it would be treated as just another part of the addition for the final multiplier.


(
(Armour * ( %a + %aES + %aEva))
+(Evasion * ( %a + %Eva + %aES + %aEva))
+(Shield * ( %a + %Eva + %aES + %aEva + %Defence))
+(Molten Shell * ( %a + %aES + %aEva) * (Inner Force))
+(Grace * ( %a + %Eva + %aES + %aEva + %EvaS) * (Inner Force))
)
*(Determination * (Inner Force))


I am, I have to admit, unsure how the bonus Defence on Shield is calculated.
I am, however, sure that the part about Molten Shell is right, and pretty confident that "Determination" granting %MORE instead of %INCREASED armour should influence all.
If someone would finally say yay or nay that'd be cool. Ideally though you could just post the corresponding code-piece in the wiki.


EDIT2:
To make it clear, this was based on the following quote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Morgg86 wrote:

Your answer confuses me a littel bit.

Final armour = base armour * (1 + %armour) + base evasion * (1 + %armour + %evasion)

This isn't entirely true.
It's

Final armour = base armour * (1 + [total increases to armour]) + base evasion * (1 + [total increases to armour and evasion])

Leather and steel is in that category, so it applies. There's no way to make it apply twice. It's exactly the same with the "increased defences from shield" nodes that increase armour evasiona nd energy shield. There's one bonus, it can only apply once to a given value.

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Morgg86 wrote:

example: when i take a 8% leather and steal node:

Final armour = 100 * (1 + 0,08) + 100 * ( 1+ 0.08)
216 = 108 + 108

This is correct.

As I understand this, one has to simply split up all boni into categories (see above) for the most easy calculation.
Splitting %Armour boni into pure/aES/aEva - this way, no matter how you do it, you only apply the percentage once (24% for a single "Leather and Steel" node - or 8% for the lesser ones). You can even go ahead and ignore "Iron Reflexes" to end up with the pure Evasion rating, you'd just had to remove (+ %a + %aES) (and base armour, Determination and Molten Shell ^^).

EDIT3:
Instead of percentage you could write (1+ (total points)/100) which basically is what the percentage sign is for. This is, what I recon Mark did in above quote.

EDIT:
For general amusement I made up a totally useless character that would have (quite a few) of the above mentioned traits but who would suck terribly. Just to give the unimaginative an idea where all the boni can come from.

Simplifying:

passive +X% armour/evasion nodes affect only your equip armour/evasion;

if you get +8% armour, it will rise only the armour from your equip, not the armour from Iron
Reflexes;

if you get Leather and steel(+24% armour +24% evasion) it will add +24% of your equip armour,
then 24% of your equip evasion, +X% armour isn't accounted for Iron Reflexes.


Am I right?

@Azuroth - Zodiac Leather has the highest base evasion at 609; Assassin Garb has 525 to offset the +3% implicit movespeed bonus (instead of -4% as most other evasion armor).

I did not see zodiac leather. So in terms of raw defense, wear zodiac leather and get as many +armor or +evasion nodes as you can. The mix is irrelevant.

Alright just because I'm aweful @ math,

Is this the correct formula?

Total Armor =(1 + Armor% + "Armor and Evasion"%)*(Base Armor + Base Evasion*(1 + Evasion%))

"Armor and Evasion"% = 24% , in the case of leather and steel. And when I write x% I'm refering to x/100

Just checking so I have understod you guys. Thank you in advance! :)

"

Sharkyman wrote:

Alright just because I'm aweful @ math,

Is this the correct formula?

Total Armor =(1 + Armor% + "Armor and Evasion"%)*(Base Armor + Base Evasion*(1 + Evasion%))

"Armor and Evasion"% = 24% , in the case of leather and steel. And when I write x% I'm refering to x/100

Just checking so I have understod you guys. Thank you in advance! :)

No, that would be a multiplicative formula. The formula is additive:

Total Armour = Base Amour *(1 + Armour% + "Armour and evasion %") + Base Evasion *(1 + Evasion% + Armour% + "Armour and Evasion%")