Iron Reflexes

Ok, so if I get this right, mixed nodes like leather and Steel do not give +x% armor and +x% evasion but instead +x% "armor and evasion"?

Wouldn't the formula look like this, then:

Defence = Base Armor * (1 + x% armor + x% armor and evasion + x% armor and energyshield) + Base Evasion * (1 + x% evasion + x% armor and evasion + x% evasion and energy shield)

So what would be the best gear?

Top tier armor str/dex:
187 Armor and 241 eva.

with +50% from leather and steel nodes that would give you:

187 * 1,5 + 241 * 1,5 = 642 def

To hit the same value with pure dex gear (390 base), you would need a modifier of 1,64%.

But we need to factor in the gain from dex. The break-even point is roughly at 200 dex:
200 dex = +40% evasion, total modifier of 1,9.

187 * 1,5 + 241 * 1,9 = 738,4 (armor/eva)
390 * 1,9 = 741 (pure eva)

So pure Eva gear will be better at 200 dex, which should be obtainable by a dex based char.
Note that to hit that same armor value with pure str armor, you would merely need +35% armor (not all that much, actually. That is like 3 passive points). Makes me think Iron Reflexes is not actually all that OP.

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Cronos988 wrote:

So pure Eva gear will be better at 200 dex, which should be obtainable by a dex based char.
Note that to hit that same armor value with pure str armor, you would merely need +35% armor (not all that much, actually. That is like 3 passive points). Makes me think Iron Reflexes is not actually all that OP.

Maybe because you took the worst case for the full evade?
With 200 dex:
Shield:
211 * 1,5 + 211 * 1,9 = 716 (armor/eva)
551 * 1,9 = 1046 (pure eva)

Boots:
76 * 1,5 + 76 * 1,9 = 269 (armor/eva)
165 * 1,9 = 313 (pure eva)

Gloves:
76 * 1,5 + 76 * 1,9 = 269 (armor/eva)
168 * 1,9 = 319 (pure eva)

Helmet:
95 * 1,5 + 143 * 1,9 = 414 (armor/eva)
246 * 1,9 = 467 (pure eva)


So, if you add everything, for a full gear, you get:
Armor/Eva: 2406
Pure Eva: 2886

So, just with Iron reflexes and a full evade gear, you get 20% more armor rating than a hybrid stuff. And 200 dex is not really high. And the ranger has also a 48% evade rating for 4 points at the start...

And for your information, you get more armor with a full armor stuff than a evade/armor IR stuff...

With Mark's post a lot of confusion is cleared up but do nodes that give say 30% increase to evasion rating function with iron reflexes or no? As in your evasion rating getting boosted by 30% in the formula that Mark linked
example
Final armor = 100 * (1 + 0) + 100 * ( 1+ 0.3)

or is it only nodes that say armor and evasion rating?
Along with what if you took a node that gave just pure armor % increase say one of the 10% ones
If added to previous example would it be
A)Final armor = 100 * (1 + 0.1) + 100 * ( 1+ 0.4)
where both the evasion converted to armor and the base armor was effected or
B) Final armor = 100 * (1 + 0.1) + 100 * ( 1+ 0.3)
where just the base armor is effected by the % armor increase.

Example A would not be double dipping at all which is why I'm unsure if it works this way or not since leather and steel functions the way it does so that it doesn't double dip.

Nop, it's B) Final armor = 100 * (1 + 0.1) + 100 * ( 1+ 0.3).

Can someone clarify this:


Let's say I'm only wearing gear that gives me 100 evasion with zero armour


Passive nodes:
I have Iron Reflexes
Also have Steel Skin (+ 30% armour from duelist area)



What is my ending armour totals?

130 (100 evasion is converted to armour, plus 30% due to Steel Skin passive node)

or

100 (100 evasion is converted to armour, Steel Skin does nothing as I dont have any 'base' armour on any gear)



Please help me understand as it has a huge implication on my duelist build which I planned on getting mostly evasion gear but have a lot of +armour nodes (not just the leather and steel type nodes).

"

Vipermagi wrote:

When Evasion is converted to Armor, it benefits from Increased Armor. That's the whole gimmick behind it.

so let's get this right then, if I have IR and using a full evade armor I will get that all to armor, and for that any passive I ahve for armor will work? someone behind said it won't work.

let me clarify everything, if I have evade passive it will go to evade then transformed to armor, who also can get the passive armor bonus?

or if I have a full evade gear and armor passive with IR all that evade will get bonus but only because I don't have a evade passive to it?

pretty much what I want to know is the passives apply to the gear first then get total or what?


problem i'm not getting here is some people say one thing then other say another. also the rumor I read about same name passives don't stack, is even true or not?

it's really confusing, but I think the way it works is this:

First, your native armor is calculated: The basis is your base amor, modified by +x% armor passives.

Then, evasion armor is calculated: The basis is your base evasion, modified by +x% evasion passives AND +x% armor passives.

The two values together form you effective armor rating.

So Iron Reflexes does 3 things: It makes armor modifiers affect your base evasion, it adds your evasion value to your armor value, and it sets your evasion chance to 0.

Basically, with Iron Reflexes, every armor node is turned into an armor/evasion node (everything is leather and steel). It is not muliplicative, evasion armor will not be added to native armor and THEN affected by modifiers. It is additive: Every +x% armor passive will also work as an +x% evasion passive, and all evasion is added to armor.

Which makes Iron Reflexes potentially more powerfull than a standard armor build, because flat evasion numbers are higher than flat armor numbers, but at the same time, armor modificators are better (52% for 3 points!) than evasion modifiers. Iron Will combines the benefits of both.

Does this mean taking both leather and steel, and other armor and evasion passives will be more beneficial when it comes to taking Iron Reflexes, or does it mean its better to go straight for flat evasion? Will the armor % increase apply after the conversion from Evasion to armor?

"

SquiglyJim wrote:

Does this mean taking both leather and steel, and other armor and evasion passives will be more beneficial when it comes to taking Iron Reflexes, or does it mean its better to go straight for flat evasion? Will the armor % increase apply after the conversion from Evasion to armor?

No, the armor % increase applies to your base armor and your base evasion, then they get added together.

Actually, using x% armor passives is more beneficial when you go for Iron Reflexes, because it will boost any base armor you might have and has the highest % values.

"

Cronos988 wrote:

"

SquiglyJim wrote:

Does this mean taking both leather and steel, and other armor and evasion passives will be more beneficial when it comes to taking Iron Reflexes, or does it mean its better to go straight for flat evasion? Will the armor % increase apply after the conversion from Evasion to armor?

No, the armor % increase applies to your base armor and your base evasion, then they get added together.

Actually, using x% armor passives is more beneficial when you go for Iron Reflexes, because it will boost any base armor you might have and has the highest % values.

Assuming this is true what Keyan last said would be incorrect. In that the example I last said would end up as A.
The situation was say you have piece of armor that gives 100 armor and 100 evasion rating. You take a 30% evasion rating node, a 10% armor rating node, a 8% leather and steel node, and iron reflexes.
The equation for final armor value would then be
Final armor = 100 * (1+0.1+.08) + 100 *(1+0.3+0.1+.08)

Correct?