Iron Reflexes

Hi,

I'm a bit wondering, what it is good for.
I've tried using it (lvl 24 Duellist).
Before, i had 47% reduction through armor and 27% dodge.
Effective Reduction: 1 - 0.53*0.73 = 62%.
After, i had 60% reduction through armor and 5% dodge.
Effective Reduction: 1 - 0.4*0.95 = 62%.

So - it doesn't seem to increase effective health.
However it has even a downside:

If a fire-skeleton attacks me, it applies fire-damage, which is not reduced by my armor.
However, if i still had dodge, there would be the chance it won't hit me and consecutively not apply fire-damage.
=> The passive even makes my hero worse.

Is there any hidden reason for this passive, or is it just plain bad?

That is incorrect. If the fire mage attacks with a spell, then your dodge will not be used unless you specifically have spell dodging (and therefore no armor, because that is what the spelldodge passive does).

Also, consider this scenario: 60% Dodge vs 60% Damage reduction

Lets say there are 10 enemies, and ten attacks are made against you in one second. Lets say they do 1000 damage a hit. The total damage against you is 10000. If you eat all those attacks you will take 4000 damage. On the other hand, you could dodge 60% of them, maybe more with some luck.

However, lets say you have 5000hp. You can, preferably with a flask, eat all those attacks and still live, as you will only take 4000 damage. But if a single one of the attacks gets through your 60% dodge, at 10000 a hit, you are dead.

These values are completely pulled from nowhere, but could be scaled to appropriately show an end-game scenario in PoE.



This is the whole Dodge vs Armor debate again. With armor, you will not dodge anything, but any damage you take is highly reduced. With dodge, you take no damage, until the random number generator decides you have dodged enough and you get hit. And that, right there, is what kills you. Without reduction, that hit will cut through all your health, and a health flask isn't going to help you.

With 99% dodge, you will still get hit once out of every 100 attacks. Given the number of enemies you fight and their attack speed, how long before that one guy hits you? Dodge may seem like it increases your damage reduction, but it is artificial. When you dodge, it is 100% damage reduced. But when you don't, it is 0%.


I like to think that the RNG hates me, and so I always assume it's 0%. A solid, unchanging number is much better in my opinion. But if you want to gamble on your dodge chance, more power to you.

About the spell:
My armor states, that it only reduces physical damage.
So while evase doesn't help me here, neither does armor.

About RNG:
You have to differentiate:
If you get one-shotted, armor definitely adds more security.
However if you don't, while not dodging in a row may kill you in a situation armor had saved you, you may also find yourself dodging in a row out of a situation where armor wouldn't have saved you.

And i don't intend going full evasion only, to let me be a one-hit.

But i see it's use on a ranger having who has no other defenses, now.

This keystone is far OP.
My lvl73 mara with 2H can achieve 39% damage reduction and can do lvl62 maps with ease, any ranger class can achieve above 70% at this level with evasion aura on+iron reflexes skill, it makes me no sense that a ranged class can achieve almost twice defense rate than a melee class.
Just look at evasion values on armor, i never saw more than 6-700 def on a helmet but frequently see 1k+ evasion on ranger helms, so if 100% converted that means a 1k+ def helm, so as the torso armor with 2k evasion compared to my 1.2k def torso.
Please nerf evasion values or the passive keystone.

"

Alternalo wrote:

This keystone is far OP.
My lvl73 mara with 2H can achieve 39% damage reduction and can do lvl62 maps with ease, any ranger class can achieve above 70% at this level with evasion aura on+iron reflexes skill, it makes me no sense that a ranged class can achieve almost twice defense rate than a melee class.
Just look at evasion values on armor, i never saw more than 6-700 def on a helmet but frequently see 1k+ evasion on ranger helms, so if 100% converted that means a 1k+ def helm, so as the torso armor with 2k evasion compared to my 1.2k def torso.
Please nerf evasion values or the passive keystone.

Have you ever played a Ranger class? Rangers are one of the most brittle classes in PoE, and to nerf IR would really take away one of its best form of defense. Evasion mechanic in this game is iffy at best and on high difficulties, all it takes is 1 shot that you can't evade and you're dead. On the other hand, if you stack life like crazy, your ranger ends up like a tank but with serious issues in dealing out any form of decent damage. To nerf IR would seriously deincentivize anyone who would play the class.

"

Islidox wrote:

Rangers are one of the most brittle classes in PoE

I doubt this more and more every day.
The most successful defensive character I've ever made was a ranger (max block, high eva, acrobatics, and decently high HP).

I feel that most people think the ranger (read: archer) is squishy because they choose a build without a shield and they feel like they need to keep pumping their dps overly high (usually while saying, "My character is safe when everything dies at the edge of the screen!").

There have been a number of IR, Iron Grip, strength and HP ranger (read: archer) builds posted on the forums that hit Merciless with almost 2k hp and almost as much armor as a marauder.

"

pneuma wrote:

"

Islidox wrote:

Rangers are one of the most brittle classes in PoE

I doubt this more and more every day.
The most successful defensive character I've ever made was a ranger (max block, high eva, acrobatics, and decently high HP).

I feel that most people think the ranger (read: archer) is squishy because they choose a build without a shield and they feel like they need to keep pumping their dps overly high (usually while saying, "My character is safe when everything dies at the edge of the screen!").

There have been a number of IR, Iron Grip, strength and HP ranger (read: archer) builds posted on the forums that hit Merciless with almost 2k hp and almost as much armor as a marauder.

Right, but for increasing their defenses I'm sure their DPS/DPH suffers. You can't have both and have your cake too.

I also need to upgrade my equipment or something because the Vaal Overlord laser beam (just 1) either leaves me with less than 10% health or outright 1shots me. (1.3k HP with 63% lightning resistance)

I can't complain about my marauder. Actually I'm thinking about getting Iron-Reflexes. And the armor and evasion of armor-pieces should be the same. At least the mixed pieces have as much armor as evasion.

The best evasive armor has one point more evasion, since it has 457 Points evasion, while the best mitigation-armor only hase 456 Points armor (best means level68).

There is a lvl62-armor with 502 Evasion, but it is put next to one with 452 Armor and 8-12 to all resistances. But whenever two armors require the same amount of dex/str they provide the same amount of armor/evasion.

Maybe Iron-Reflexes get doubled bonuses from +Armor and +Evasion, since the passives increase the evasion first, transform it into armor and increase the armor too. This would result in some crazy numbers and should not happen.

it simply need moving, away from mara, towards right side opposed to south.

Got a question and had opposite answers.
asking again)

Example - i got Iron reflexes, 50% increased evasion from nods, 50% increased armor from nodes. got chest 250 eva and 250 armor. 100 dexterity. can anyone write a formule which will show me my final armor?